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all right guys we

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should be live those in the chat just

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let me know that you can hear me okay

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and we will get going should be a little

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bit of delay

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everybody good in the chat you guys hear

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i'm just gonna check make sure on

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and they will bring ross in

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all right we are live good

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all right i am not going to waste any

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time i'm going to bring our special

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guest

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in today and there he is

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from australia ross coltar ross thank

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you so much

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we finally get to do it ross hi joe how

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are you mate

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i'm doing good so we met i'm trying to

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remember it was sometime before the new

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york times article came out

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so i don't know if you remember it was

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several months before we started talking

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about the article and wilson davis

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and the way i got introduced to you is

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who was it um rigney james rigney said i

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have somebody i want you to meet i'm

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like okay who is it he's like this guy

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you're really going to like him and then

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we connected and i was like

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thank you so much james because you

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became a great source great source a

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great sounding board for me

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and uh for people who don't know who you

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are just tell talk a little bit

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about your background and how you got

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into this subject and reporting

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i'm a an investigative journalist and

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author based in sydney australia

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i've worked as a journalist for 36 years

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i trained as a lawyer worked briefly as

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a lawyer

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i have worked in newspapers television

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bit of radio for all of that time i've

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worked for australia's public

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broadcaster

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uh the abc which is a bit like your pbs

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but most recently i've worked for

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commercial networks channel nine

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the nine network and channel seven which

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are the two largest commercial networks

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in australia

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and i've done long form investigative

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journalism

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where i am i do sort of like one hour

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forty five minute to one hour long

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investigative features covered terrorism

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national security i've embedded with um

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american soldiers in uh iraq and

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afghanistan

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i've covered the wars there and uh

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a lot of defense national security stuff

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um

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i was uh an investigative rep one of the

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most important stories i've ever broken

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was a story that assisted me in the work

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that i'm doing at the moment which was

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an investigation into the five eyes

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alliance the yakuza agreement

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the uk usa agreement was signed

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immediately after world war ii

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between the uk usa new zealand and

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canada

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and essentially it was a collaborative

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intelligence sharing agreement

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and uh i broke the story with a guy

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called duncan campbell a british

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investigative journalist

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about the existence of the echelon

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five eyes communication system which

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essentially monitors

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um telecommunications surveillance all

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around the world

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the fact of the existence of the system

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was confirmed for the first time by

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uh interviewing one of my stories i

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guess that's one of the things that's

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made me realize the extent of

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intelligent sharing

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between australia and the us and uk

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and it kind of focused my interest in

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the uap subject because

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i had sources in defense here in

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australia who were

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encouraging me to take a look at the uap

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phenomenon especially after the

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new york times stories uh when leslie

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kane ralph blumenthal and

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elaine cooper broke the superb december

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2017 expose that revealed the existence

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of the

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pentagon uap program

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and also the the fact of the uss limits

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tech ufo incident and then the

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subsequent gimbal

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and go fast videos and

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i basically learned a great deal about

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the uh

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the ufo phenomenon by engaging with

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researchers both here in australia bill

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chalker keith basterfield

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james reagan paul dean uh

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really lovely people top shelf people

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who've basically been doing a lot of

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work behind the scenes for many many

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years

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and they woke me up to the fact that

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this wasn't some kind of

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lunatic fringe thing for that crazy uh

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predilection

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and i also had when i was working for

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four corners which is australia's

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probably most prestigious public affairs

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tv show

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i was doing a story on the year force

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and i can't name it but there were

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two very senior officers of the

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australian air force school engaging

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with me

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for the story and we were sitting in a

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mess a bar

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one evening after doing some filming

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with them and

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they just got me engaged on the subject

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of ufos

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uaps and it was interesting because in

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the

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private forum of a an air force bar

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there was a willingness by military

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pilots to engage with me

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about what they were seeing and it

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struck me as amazing

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that that there was this cognitive

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dissonance between what the public are

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being told

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which is essentially has essentially

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been a tool very recently that

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ufos of bunker uh that

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they can largely be prosaically

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explained and more importantly that um

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they pose no national security issue uh

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in contradiction to that i was being

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told by

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senior officials in our defence and

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intelligence services

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former retired squadron leaders in our

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air force

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commercial pilots that encounters with

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uaps an identified aerial phenomena i

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prefer that too because it's less loaded

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they were very common and there was a

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big

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perceived problem with potential for

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near-misses and

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and also a clear link between

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[Music]

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these strange anomalous objects and

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sensitive military facilities

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many of which in australia are linked

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into the american

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strategic nuclear deterrence places like

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pine gap

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which is the base in the middle of

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central australia

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and also the lesser harold e

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holt naval communications station far up

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in a very remote part of

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western australia called north west cape

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near the town of

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exmath and these two bases which

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i've since discovered are very very

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closely uh

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linked into america's um icbm and

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nuclear weapons surveillance all over

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the planet um

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they and also space object monitoring

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they they've frequently seen strange

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anomalous objects going back many

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decades

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and uh i was also another thing that

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really brought me into

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this area was the history and

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i've written history books myself i'm

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quite a serious historian i've written

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books about the first world war

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and i know how to use archives i use a

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lot of archival research both here

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overseas and i was quite struck when i

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went through the australian

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national archives at the counter-factual

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history if you like the

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the history that was different to what

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were being told publicly

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which was that our air force at least

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until the 1970s which was the files that

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i could see

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had right from the 1940s monitored the

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ufo phenomenon

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and taken a grave and very serious

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interest in it

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and that indeed at one stage in the

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defence

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science area of our defense department

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there were

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there was one very senior scientist

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called harry turner

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who was heavily involved through the

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joint intelligence

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organization of the australian defense

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department in pushing for

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essentially a rapid response unit to

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respond to

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uap sightings because he'd seen objects

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during the the british nuclear testing

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at maralinga

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in south australia in the 1950s and uh

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he'd also witnessed strange objects

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hovering over the icbm

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testing that they'd done at the rocket

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range as well in the 1960s

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so with that all sort of under my belt i

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i've had a long

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interest in the phenomenon i've done a

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couple of stories about it as a

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journalist and

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it it sharpened my awareness of the

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issue and

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i guess also i'm a natural rebel because

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i was also frequently told by editors

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and

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executive producers that ufos weren't a

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story but they were all

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rubbish and they should be ridiculed and

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uh

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that taboo stigma fascinated me

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and one of the things about your book

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and i do want to get into how you

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started writing letters but

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one of the great things about your book

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for people it's great for new people and

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great for people who like me

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who've been in this for a while because

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there's a lot of stuff in your book i'm

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like i didn't know that there's a lot of

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history i don't know

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and one of the things the things that

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always comes up when you talk about this

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subject people are like

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right away i get this from people new

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they go it's probably black budget

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so can you talk about in the book you

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start with the aboriginal stories

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and blue bob i think his nickname was

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and also 1930 there was

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two oh just the aboriginal cases and

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then the two cases from

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george jones and francis chichester

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yeah well i mean one of the things i was

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fascinated by

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is whatever this phenomenon is i'd

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naturally assume like a lot of people

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that the most plausible explanation must

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be that this

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technology it's a clear technology these

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are clearly

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they're responding in an intelligent way

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and they've been around

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not just in the last few years they've

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been around for decades

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and one of the things that fascinated me

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was um

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uh i had the privilege of going way way

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up into the gulf of carpentaria

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in uh far north queensland and the

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northern territory

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real outback country red dirt country

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and we were with a mining company doing

287
00:10:50,949 --> 00:10:48,000
a story about

288
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:50,959
aboriginal sacred sites aboriginal

289
00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:52,079
indigenous people

290
00:10:56,949 --> 00:10:55,120
of australia and um one of the people

291
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:56,959
that was there was a lovely man who

292
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,000
knew bob who was black is black

293
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:02,240
he's a beautiful skin so dark of almost

294
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:03,680
blue and

295
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:06,800
he was um you know treated with

296
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:08,640
reverence by the mining company because

297
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:10,880
he had this almost mystical ability to

298
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:13,279
navigate across the landscape just using

299
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:15,519
his dream time stories the aboriginal

300
00:11:19,269 --> 00:11:18,320
oral history is here and the chopper

301
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:19,279
pilot said to me

302
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:20,640
that you sit in the back and you just

303
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:22,000
watch because i'm not going to have the

304
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:23,200
gps on

305
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:24,640
we're just going to navigate across the

306
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,240
landscape and blue bob's going to tell

307
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:28,640
us to go that way

308
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:30,880
and uh that's exactly what he did and it

309
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:32,640
was fascinating because uh

310
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:35,519
contrary to what i expected um uh every

311
00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:36,560
time

312
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:38,959
we bob pointed out a sensitive area or a

313
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:41,040
sacred site that was done

314
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,880
obviously wanting to be protected under

315
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:44,800
the natural heritage laws

316
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,800
i could see a mining company geologist

317
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:48,640
beside me in the chocolate just going oh

318
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:52,079
no because every single object that blue

319
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,360
bomb pointed out

320
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:56,160
was full of beautiful war and bulk site

321
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,880
and

322
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:58,399
they'd already gone through a chartered

323
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:59,600
all these and found them in their

324
00:12:01,430 --> 00:12:00,880
research and they were trying to find

325
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:01,440
out

326
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,360
what the sacred sites were and they were

327
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:05,279
they were keen to demonstrate some years

328
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:06,079
of

329
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:07,519
sensitivity to making sure they

330
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:10,000
protected sacred sites

331
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,360
but one of the things we did was we

332
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:13,760
landed in a billabong a beautiful

333
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:18,079
oasis if you like uh and um

334
00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:20,240
i got the opportunity to blue bob and i

335
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:21,880
asked him about these lights called the

336
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,560
windmills which are these um

337
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:26,480
lights that were first spotted by

338
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:27,760
european settlers in

339
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:30,639
i think the 1860s and they've started to

340
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:31,760
settle the outback

341
00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:33,519
they're very well known in aboriginal

342
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:35,839
mythology they're lights that appear

343
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:37,279
from nowhere at night

344
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:40,000
and they kind of hover around campsites

345
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:40,720
and they

346
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:43,200
apparently intelligently engage and take

347
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:44,720
an interest in

348
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,000
people there and um i asked blue bob i

349
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:49,680
said you know these mythical

350
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:53,200
uh mystical lights what's your take on

351
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:53,519
them

352
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,240
and i said you know the local radio i've

353
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:58,000
heard a story recently that they're just

354
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:59,839
truck headlights the headlights of

355
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:00,720
trucks

356
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,680
reflected off um moisture in cloud

357
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:05,680
matter or fog

358
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,920
and blue bob tipped his head back and

359
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:09,760
laughed and laughed and laughed he

360
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:11,120
thought it was very because he

361
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,920
said

362
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:13,600
there weren't many trucks around three

363
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,040
thousand years ago and

364
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:17,519
um and he told me that it was part of

365
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:25,750
and more importantly the whole

366
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:28,000
aboriginal mythology of the one january

367
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:28,480
pool

368
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:31,839
is way way up in the kimberley area of

369
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:33,519
northwest australia

370
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:36,560
if you go up there as i have done you

371
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:38,959
can see this beautiful rock art

372
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:41,920
and these amazing rock art pictures that

373
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:43,279
are really quite astonishing

374
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:46,639
with beings entities that

375
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:48,320
according to aboriginal mythology came

376
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:50,720
down from the sky and they have this

377
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:54,079
big head with big eyes and um

378
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:56,959
quite alarmingly similar if you like to

379
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:59,120
the uh the rendition of greys as

380
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:00,959
described by many

381
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:04,399
experiences and it's very much part of

382
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:06,959
aboriginal mythology that there is

383
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:09,440
a kinship between human beings and the

384
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:10,880
sky people

385
00:14:14,829 --> 00:14:12,720
and the wanjina beings are part of that

386
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:14,839
mythology

387
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:18,160
so then uh as part of my research i just

388
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,480
started looking at the history of

389
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:22,720
anomalous sightings and it fascinated me

390
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:24,800
that it was a guy who went on to become

391
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:26,560
the head of australia's air force guy

392
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:28,320
called george jones

393
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:31,199
who was um a young squadron leader in

394
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:32,880
the 1930s and uh

395
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,839
there was a plethora of sightings over a

396
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:37,199
part of victoria

397
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:41,120
in southeast of australia and um

398
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:42,959
huge numbers of residents in the files

399
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:44,800
that i've seen were seeing

400
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,160
anomalous craft objects metallic

401
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,040
craft hovering over the community and

402
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:52,800
they were lights as well that were

403
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:55,120
moving incredibly rapid speeds

404
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,880
and george jones was sent out to

405
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,560
investigate as a young squadron leader

406
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:00,720
because of the coverage at the time and

407
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:03,040
i found the local newspaper reference to

408
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,720
this investigation

409
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:06,800
it was never it was never resolved and

410
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:09,040
george jones later on in life

411
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:12,880
admitted that as a pilot himself he'd

412
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:13,600
seen

413
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:16,880
strange objects while he was flying and

414
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,279
uh

415
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:19,120
he went on to become australia's chief

416
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,120
of air staff the head of the

417
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:24,000
air force in australia and uh more

418
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:25,199
importantly

419
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:28,480
he also ran a ufo organization when he

420
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,440
was in civilian life after retirement

421
00:15:36,069 --> 00:15:33,120
so there's those stories as well and it

422
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:36,079
fascinated me that history and then

423
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:38,079
i loved when i was a little boy i just

424
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:40,480
loved reading the lonely sea in the sky

425
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:41,759
which is a beautiful

426
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:45,199
autobiography written by a british

427
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,120
sailor called francis chichester

428
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:49,839
now known as francis chagista since

429
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,120
passed on

430
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:53,519
but he was a legend because he'd he'd

431
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:54,639
sailed this

432
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,759
little boat called gypsy uh moth i think

433
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:59,360
it was

434
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:01,199
in the plane but he flew around the

435
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:03,519
world and he sailed around the world

436
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:06,720
and um in the plane that he was flying

437
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:08,880
when he was flying across the tasman

438
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:12,320
in the 1930s he saw

439
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:15,199
what sounds like a tic tac uh a

440
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:16,720
cylindrical

441
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:19,600
uh tubular sort of shaped object that

442
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:22,320
came out of nowhere um uh

443
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:25,279
dazzled him with its luminescence and um

444
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:27,440
he couldn't explain what it was but as

445
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:28,240
he acknowledged

446
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:30,560
his autobiography it appeared to be what

447
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:33,120
people these days would call

448
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:36,720
a flying saucer and it fascinated me

449
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,560
that australia's um recent history

450
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:42,639
going back to the 1930s was recording

451
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:43,680
these incidents and

452
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:46,399
um then when i started going through the

453
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:47,279
files of

454
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:50,959
the aptly named daffy the department of

455
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:53,199
air force intelligence in australia

456
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,800
god knows why they ever gave themselves

457
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:56,959
that name um they uh

458
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,160
daffy uh had numerous filings reports

459
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:02,240
and sightings reports that showed that

460
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,360
there was a real concern about um

461
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:07,600
anomalous objects that were being seen

462
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:09,280
all across australia

463
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:10,799
and one of the ones that really caught

464
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,630
period i think it was about three or

465
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,360
four weeks prior to the roswell sighting

466
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:21,360
in 1947.

467
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:23,120
there were so many sightings i think

468
00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:25,280
there were three independent sightings

469
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:25,600
of

470
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:28,640
five egg-shaped objects that came

471
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:32,000
up out of the ocean near flinders ranges

472
00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:33,679
in south australia

473
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:36,799
and these um egg-shaped

474
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:39,679
objects were apparently intelligently

475
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:42,320
controlled craft they were seen by

476
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,960
three independent sets of witnesses each

477
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,799
of whom corroborated each other about

478
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,640
the spies and the shape

479
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:50,640
and the incredible speeds of what they

480
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:51,919
saw

481
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:54,320
and uh it just fascinated me that these

482
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:56,320
objects were being seen in that period

483
00:18:02,230 --> 00:17:58,720
immediately prior to what you now know

484
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:02,240
as the mythical roswell sighting and

485
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,760
like practically every sighting in the

486
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:08,160
in the history uh especially when the

487
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:10,000
british moved in and they very kindly

488
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:11,919
decided to let their nuclear bombs off

489
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:12,640
in

490
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:16,000
complete bloody mess

491
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,880
um there's this huge big empty area of

492
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:20,799
desert in south australia that the

493
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:22,640
position of the netherlands decided to

494
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:24,720
use for nuclear weapons testing

495
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:27,919
after the second world war and

496
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:31,280
during those nuclear tests

497
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:34,480
the number of sightings of

498
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:38,160
strange anomalous craft or objects or

499
00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:39,120
lights was just

500
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:42,320
extraordinary and they were all reported

501
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:43,360
because this was a

502
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,840
highly secure range with top of the line

503
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:47,760
1940s radar

504
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:49,679
these objects were being tracked flying

505
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:50,880
in many cases at

506
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:53,440
thousands of miles an hour and there was

507
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:55,600
a genuine security concern that

508
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:57,760
some foreign nation might be monitoring

509
00:19:01,990 --> 00:18:58,640
the british

510
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:02,000
nuclear testing and a lot of work was

511
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:04,480
put into investigating these

512
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:06,640
these incidents and funnily enough when

513
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:07,840
i was investigating

514
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:10,080
my research i actually found a very old

515
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:11,200
gentleman who

516
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:14,880
remembered being at some of these tests

517
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:17,280
in the 1960s i think they were rocket

518
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:18,640
tests at the

519
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,760
rocket range and he told me that

520
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,840
he was scrambled because he was a

521
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:25,919
physicist and he was scrambled to go and

522
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,160
investigate a local woman

523
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:30,320
who'd been walking with her dog and she

524
00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:31,679
claimed to have seen

525
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,039
a tripod shaped craft

526
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:37,440
i would say a tripod legged craft with a

527
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:38,640
big egg shape

528
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:41,919
landing in scrub near the uh

529
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:45,039
the rocket range facility and

530
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,360
it was quite funny because when i looked

531
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,039
at the sightings report

532
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,440
and compared it oh gosh what's the name

533
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,120
of that patrolman who

534
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:55,679
who saw an egg-shaped object barney

535
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:56,480
zamora

536
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:00,240
identical

537
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:02,720
rendition of the zamora incident and uh

538
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:04,000
essentially there was this

539
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:07,440
um tripod crates uh tripod legged

540
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,440
interchange craft that landed in

541
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:11,600
bushland near the

542
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,799
rocket testing range and uh he got there

543
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,480
too late to actually see the craft

544
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:18,480
but when he interviewed the woman and

545
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:20,240
she took him to the place where this

546
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:22,480
object had allegedly landed he burned

547
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:23,600
and recorded the

548
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:27,200
um indentations of the tripod fit

549
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:28,960
and it really struck me when i looked at

550
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:31,120
the files of the zamora incident the

551
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:32,720
loyal incident

552
00:20:36,549 --> 00:20:35,840
the similarities between that object and

553
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:36,559
what this

554
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:40,240
person has seen in the 1940s or 50s

555
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,520
and it's quite astonishing because

556
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:46,240
you know we've all been told especially

557
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:49,440
since project blue book in 1969 was shut

558
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:50,480
down

559
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:53,760
we've all been told that the uap is ufos

560
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,320
and not a national security issue

561
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:58,080
they're not a flight safety issue

562
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,480
they're

563
00:21:02,950 --> 00:21:01,200
not really an area of concern at all and

564
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:02,960
you can treat them with a degree of

565
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,320
visible content or mockery because

566
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:08,559
it's all rubbish you know authoritative

567
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:09,840
scientists say so

568
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:12,559
in your story and it fascinated me to

569
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:15,760
speak that in the historical record

570
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:18,000
incredibly secret formerly once

571
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,600
incredibly secret archives of our

572
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,200
defense department

573
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,840
there was indeed a huge body of evidence

574
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,080
as there is in your archives to show

575
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:28,159
that science was taking it incredibly

576
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:29,520
seriously indeed

577
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:32,000
and there was a a huge concern about

578
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:33,600
these objects that would clean

579
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:36,559
breaching airspace in highly sensitive

580
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:38,080
military areas

581
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:40,000
and more importantly there was a clear

582
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:41,520
expression of concern

583
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:44,080
for a potential national security issue

584
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:44,960
as

585
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:49,200
indeed 76 years later

586
00:21:57,909 --> 00:21:52,320
the report to the

587
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:57,919
congress has essentially acknowledged

588
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:59,120
and

589
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,720
one of the things you moved on to into

590
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:02,559
the book you you went you went into uh

591
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,159
roswell let me get back to what you just

592
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:05,840
said one thing as far as

593
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,679
meet you know military whether or not

594
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,840
there's a cover-up and then

595
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:12,080
people also talk about the media cover

596
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:13,760
and i know you believe that it's more of

597
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:15,679
a stigma issue with the media but what

598
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,640
is your opinion on

599
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,240
you know a lot of people have written

600
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:20,880
and spoken about project mockingbird

601
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:23,360
where they cia infiltrated the media and

602
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:24,880
put people into certain places

603
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:27,200
covering you know trying to manage the

604
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:28,320
news do you think there's any do you

605
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,799
think that may be going on now as far as

606
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,720
you know managing the the news and we've

607
00:22:36,549 --> 00:22:34,559
we've spoken about maybe

608
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,559
there is some influence with certain

609
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:38,640
defense reporters maybe

610
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:41,760
you know trying to placate their sources

611
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,919
maybe with you know the 2020 new york

612
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:45,360
times article because we

613
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:46,960
i think we both know there was a lot

614
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:48,799
more to that article that did not make

615
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:50,000
it in i mean

616
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:52,080
we know unfortunately when ralph

617
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:53,760
blumenthal went live on facebook by

618
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,320
mistake

619
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:56,159
he was talking about wilson davis so

620
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:57,520
they looked into that i know they looked

621
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,120
into the 1961

622
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:02,159
mj-12 document which never made it in so

623
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:04,240
how much management i know i know you

624
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,679
said you don't think there's a

625
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:07,360
conspiracy in the media and i agree with

626
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:08,640
you but how much management do you think

627
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,240
there's going on at the higher levels

628
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:12,080
like something at the new york times

629
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:14,799
look uh i'll be honest with you i i

630
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:17,520
truly don't believe that there are

631
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:19,440
agents of our intelligence services

632
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:22,159
going around gagging edges in newspapers

633
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,919
uh i suspect there might have been i

634
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,520
think the evidence is strong to show

635
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:27,280
that back in the

636
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:30,320
50s and the 60s there was an intelligent

637
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:32,720
service presence in media organizations

638
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:33,120
and

639
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:34,799
i'm aware of the fact that our public

640
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:36,240
broadcaster in australia

641
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:39,840
it had tacit links with the intelligence

642
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:41,679
services so that it made it very hard

643
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,520
especially during the cold war

644
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:45,520
the journalists break stories that were

645
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:47,120
nationally sensitive because they were

646
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:47,360
all

647
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:50,480
vetted by a denoted committing under a

648
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:51,760
very british system

649
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:54,480
it was kind of like oh chap please bring

650
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:56,559
me your stories that might expose issues

651
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:57,600
of nationals

652
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,200
will tell you whether or not you can run

653
00:24:03,110 --> 00:24:01,520
them and and i know that's changed

654
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:03,120
because when i worked for

655
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:04,720
the public broadcaster i did a big

656
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:07,200
expose on our equivalent of the cia

657
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:08,000
which

658
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,039
infuriated our government and um very

659
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:13,120
narrowly avoided me getting prosecuted

660
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:15,279
supposedly revealing national security

661
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:16,960
secrets but um

662
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:18,080
you know there was a huge royal

663
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:20,159
commission and it exposed all manner of

664
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,000
issues and problems in our intelligence

665
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:24,559
services which were remedied as a result

666
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:27,039
but um to be honest with you as a

667
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:28,320
journalist who's covered

668
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:30,080
national security intelligence and

669
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:31,760
defence issues

670
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:34,880
the bigger issue frankly with ufos

671
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:36,720
is the stigma and the contempt in the

672
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:39,039
ridicule that's attached to the subject

673
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,240
such that editors are acculturated who

674
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,120
treat the subject with

675
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:47,440
to do they just don't think that ufos

676
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:48,640
are a story

677
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:51,039
and this permeates not just newspapers

678
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:53,520
and television but also the entire media

679
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:55,039
and publishing industry

680
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:56,799
i can tell you it's been a hard road to

681
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:59,279
persuade a a major publisher like heart

682
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:00,480
of papa collins

683
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:02,559
to their credit to take this issue

684
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,520
seriously

685
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:05,600
and to let a journalist like me write a

686
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:06,799
book

687
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:09,279
which is a serious insect journalists

688
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:10,400
take on the

689
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:13,120
phenomenon and i was laughing this

690
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:14,240
morning because

691
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:18,000
even amazon categorized my book under um

692
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:21,120
ufos and new age

693
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:25,279
and uh i was in i was in

694
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,360
the strand books one of my favorite book

695
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:29,039
shops in the world in new york a few

696
00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:30,320
weeks ago

697
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:32,000
and uh it's on fifth avenue it's the

698
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:33,760
world's biggest bookshop i think but

699
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:36,000
it's just such a magnificent bookshop

700
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:38,400
love it but i was infuriated because i

701
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:41,200
was trying to find the ufo section and

702
00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:42,799
i said to them i said where's your ufo

703
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:44,080
section and then they gave me this kind

704
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:44,880
of

705
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,159
i look at those and um and

706
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,640
uh i was shown into the fantasy section

707
00:25:53,350 --> 00:25:51,840
of strand books

708
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:53,360
right up the back with all the dirty

709
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:54,880
books and all the weird sort of

710
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:56,000
psychological new

711
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:59,039
age mysticism books and uh i actually

712
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:59,760
said to the

713
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,279
guy who showed me i said why don't you

714
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:03,760
put all the ufo books here and you have

715
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,200
that's where we put all the weird

716
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:07,520
you know

717
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:10,320
i think i think there is a stigma and uh

718
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:10,799
i

719
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,400
um

720
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:16,640
i am aware and i've written about it in

721
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:18,799
my book i am aware that there was

722
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:21,120
historically intelligent service

723
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:21,919
meddling

724
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:24,159
in the phenomenon and try to suppress

725
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,480
public coverage and awareness of it

726
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,240
um to the extent that if you go to the

727
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:30,000
cia's library

728
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:31,679
and and you know there are books that

729
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:33,039
have been written about this issue

730
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:35,120
creditable books i think tell the story

731
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:36,799
much better than i do

732
00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:39,679
um the cia made a conscious decision to

733
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:40,720
shut down

734
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:44,320
public awareness of ufos a decision was

735
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:44,799
made

736
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,240
that this was a subject matter that was

737
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,559
not publicly discussed and so they

738
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:52,080
adopted a deliberate policy

739
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,080
of stigmatizing and ridiculing the

740
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:56,320
subject and that's the problem

741
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,559
that's the problem at the desk level in

742
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:00,480
the newspaper that when a reporter like

743
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:02,400
me would walk in and say

744
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:05,440
i've got a ufo story or a

745
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:07,600
story about an anomalous phenomena or an

746
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:08,480
object that's been

747
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,840
seen in the sky the default mode

748
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:13,919
inside the newspaper was to treat it

749
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:17,279
with extreme ridicule and skepticism

750
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,039
to the extent that you know as happened

751
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:21,120
to dave fraver and the pilots on the us

752
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:22,000
estimates

753
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:23,840
you know people would wear tinfoil hats

754
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:25,600
or leave a tinfoil hat on your desk you

755
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:26,159
know

756
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:29,039
it's um there's something about it that

757
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:29,840
invites

758
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:32,240
ridicule and the irony is the thing that

759
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:34,799
i find fascinating i've realized there's

760
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:36,880
a huge cognitive dissonance between what

761
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,919
the public actually

762
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,080
thinks of this subject matter and what

763
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:43,039
the evidence actually showed

764
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:45,200
no i agree and my first starting news

765
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:46,480
was back in the 80s and

766
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:48,799
the only time i would see a ufo story

767
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,559
was that the last you know the last 30

768
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:52,000
minutes in the united states it's called

769
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:53,200
a kicker story

770
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:54,399
you know and they'd play some weird

771
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,320
music and they'd make a joke about it

772
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:58,720
and we've come a long way since then so

773
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:59,520
um

774
00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:00,960
well it was funny i was only watching

775
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:02,559
last night joe there's this amazing

776
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:03,120
story

777
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:05,520
and it's on youtube and there's a

778
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:06,240
gentleman

779
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,159
who i think he's part of some kind of

780
00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:10,480
religious organization but he's a

781
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:13,679
very large african-american man

782
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:16,159
and he's wearing a robe and the reporter

783
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:17,520
is invited to a park

784
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,080
and the gentleman summons a ufo have you

785
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,480
seen that imagery it's project yahweh

786
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:25,120
and um yeah yeah and it's hilarious

787
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:26,080
because

788
00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:28,000
i mean the news organization belittled

789
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,120
the whole story

790
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:31,440
but the hilarious thing is the guy

791
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:32,559
really did

792
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:35,840
apparently summons some kind of object

793
00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:38,559
yeah i thought people i think i think

794
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:40,240
they were balloons i think people have

795
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:40,880
debunked

796
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,480
him specifically but yeah but i mean

797
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:46,559
there are other people that i've seen

798
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:48,799
claim to do that george knapp just did a

799
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:49,679
report on it

800
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:51,679
an interview with three guys and some of

801
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:53,360
the video is really impressive i mean

802
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:54,399
some of it is some of the most

803
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,720
impressive home video i've ever seen

804
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:58,559
so yeah i'm definitely open to the and

805
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:59,919
when you bring up summoning i brought it

806
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,240
the

807
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:03,120
and somebody said you realize what

808
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,919
you're saying

809
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:05,760
you're summoning and there was a

810
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:08,080
connection right away to demons

811
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,600
so i got to be careful what i say um

812
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:13,520
but your book you talk about roswell and

813
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:14,640
i know a lot of people know about

814
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:15,919
roswell and

815
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:17,120
but i want to talk about some of the

816
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:18,320
things a lot of people don't know and a

817
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:20,159
lot of things i didn't know i mean i've

818
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:20,720
heard of

819
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:24,720
frank scully but can you talk about

820
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,080
scully his book

821
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,240
and wilbur smith and then more

822
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:30,080
importantly robert sarbacher

823
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:31,679
i mean that's a name a lot of people in

824
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:33,200
our field do not know except for the

825
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:33,600
long

826
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,360
yeah well i mean i mean

827
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,120
will smith of course as you know was a

828
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:40,799
canadian guy who

829
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:44,320
claimed repeatedly in his lifetime to

830
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:47,679
have stumbled across evidence of the

831
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:51,200
american retrieval of a ufo program and

832
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:53,279
its attempts to re-engineer it and he

833
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:54,159
told

834
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:57,760
his canadian uh government masters

835
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:59,360
in a memo that has since been

836
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:02,320
declassified that it was the most secret

837
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:05,279
program in the um in the american

838
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:06,799
government much more secret even than

839
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:08,159
the h-bomb and

840
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:11,600
uh this was a memo that was recovered i

841
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,640
think actually after

842
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,720
smith's death but essentially it's been

843
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:16,559
verified by his son

844
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,080
and indeed by other people that he was

845
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:22,559
indeed introduced to people in the

846
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:23,200
american

847
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,120
military industrial establishment in the

848
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:27,200
1940s and 50s who

849
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:32,320
um were allegedly reportedly involved in

850
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:34,799
gotta say a crash retrieval a ufo crash

851
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:37,200
retrieval program that was attempting to

852
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:40,159
back engineer this technology and uh one

853
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:40,880
of the people

854
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:43,600
who acknowledged fascinatingly that he

855
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:44,480
engaged

856
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,279
with mr dart this work was a guy called

857
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:50,000
robert sebastian who was a professor at

858
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:50,880
a very eminent

859
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:54,080
university and as i've often found in my

860
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:55,760
research a lot of the work's been done

861
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:56,320
before

862
00:31:02,710 --> 00:30:59,679
right by very dogged and dedicated

863
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,720
uh researchers in the ufo field and he

864
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,240
was written a letter uh

865
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:06,480
and asked you know had he engaged with

866
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:07,679
the smith character and

867
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:09,919
um you know was he aware of this program

868
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,120
that was going on and

869
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:12,880
sebastian i can't remember the exact

870
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:15,360
form of words but he basically admitted

871
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:18,159
that there was this program and that you

872
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:18,960
can understand

873
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,519
why it was being kept secret and i

874
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:23,200
noticed that there's been other

875
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,720
people in the um american military and

876
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:28,240
industrial establishment who basically

877
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:31,519
acknowledged implicitly or explicitly

878
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:33,279
the existence of this

879
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:36,159
program if you like uh over the years

880
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,640
and

881
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:38,640
i notice also that it's been explicitly

882
00:31:43,029 --> 00:31:40,880
and categorically denied by

883
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:43,039
i think the obama white house among

884
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:44,240
others um

885
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:47,840
in a press release uh and ultimately

886
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:50,559
in the face of those denials you have

887
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:52,960
evidence from people like robert sabacho

888
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:54,480
wilbert smith

889
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:57,679
and a sort of a slow

890
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,240
concatenation of evidence that suggests

891
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,480
that there is an alternative narrative

892
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:04,559
and look you know i've i've been lied to

893
00:32:09,029 --> 00:32:07,039
before as a journalist i've seen

894
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:09,039
military cover-ups i've seen government

895
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:11,919
cover-ups governments do by

896
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:14,559
part of running a country that sometimes

897
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,399
you do lie to protect the national

898
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:18,000
security interest

899
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,559
and so i understand that and i don't

900
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:22,720
think it's entirely outside the realm of

901
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:25,760
possibility that the american government

902
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,039
is and has been concealing for some time

903
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,279
some kind of secret program involving

904
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,039
the retrieval of

905
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:35,840
non-human technology and the reason i

906
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:38,080
say that is because of what i've

907
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:41,360
discovered i've talked to

908
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:44,799
quite a few people in my book uh

909
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:46,640
and i've quoted people on the record

910
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:48,880
who've made public comments

911
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,080
uh notably level zondo chris mellon eric

912
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:54,880
davis dr eric davis whom i know you know

913
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,320
and these people are very highly

914
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:58,320
regarded people who've worked inside the

915
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,600
military industrial

916
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:01,919
intelligence establishment and they

917
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:02,720
they're saying

918
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:04,799
the us has recovered some kind of

919
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:06,640
advanced technology that

920
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:09,360
amd or indeed in some cases they're

921
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:10,799
flatly asserting

922
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:14,960
is off this world it's not human um

923
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:17,200
i i just find that amazing and when

924
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:19,120
you've got a paper of the reputation of

925
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:20,399
the new york times

926
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,240
running a story i think in july last

927
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:24,640
year basically saying

928
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:28,000
that they're aware of allegations of

929
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:29,360
recovered non-human

930
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:32,399
advanced technology of craft being

931
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,000
recovered

932
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,000
this needs to be taken seriously and

933
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,679
there's a the thing that really strikes

934
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:39,600
me is the evidence from wilbur smith and

935
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:40,399
sebastian

936
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:43,039
and edgar mitchell the former astronaut

937
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:44,480
there's there's a body of evidence to

938
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:48,480
support the notion that there has been

939
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:52,880
recoveries and i i followed um

940
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:55,679
the interesting story of the history of

941
00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:57,279
the aztec

942
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:00,799
alleged ufo flying saucer retrieval as

943
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:03,760
part of a documentary that i made in may

944
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:06,640
and i spent some time with scott and

945
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:07,600
suzanne

946
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:10,159
ramsey and um went through the evidence

947
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:11,040
that they've

948
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,240
collected um going right back to the uh

949
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:15,839
you know the books that were written in

950
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:19,200
the 1950s that suggested that there had

951
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:19,599
been

952
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:22,879
crash retrievals including a retrieval

953
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:25,599
near the town of aztec and new mexico

954
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:26,079
and

955
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:29,119
it fascinated me because i i can't say i

956
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:29,760
believe

957
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,320
absolutely that a gigantic flying saucer

958
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:34,159
was recovered by the u.s military

959
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,280
air force uh in that period

960
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:39,280
but i do think there's a body of

961
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:41,440
evidence there that any reasonable

962
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:42,720
journalist or any reasonable

963
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:44,000
investigator would think

964
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:46,960
amongst to a circumstantial prima facie

965
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:48,399
case that should be

966
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,879
investigated and i don't believe it can

967
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,800
be dismissed out of hand

968
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,639
and this is the thing that really shocks

969
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:56,879
me is that there was a moment

970
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,800
in my research where i've been resisting

971
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:02,400
the possibility in my head i've been

972
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:04,640
thinking okay i can i can handle the

973
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,400
notion of

974
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:08,880
possible aliens extraterrestrials

975
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,720
visiting planet earth but

976
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,480
you know in my head it just didn't seem

977
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:14,560
plausible to me that the us could have

978
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:15,359
recovered

979
00:35:19,349 --> 00:35:17,760
craft and i i kind of implicitly

980
00:35:21,670 --> 00:35:19,359
dismissed roswell and

981
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:21,680
aztec and del rio and all of these other

982
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:22,720
cases

983
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:25,040
you know trinity i noticed yuck valet

984
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:26,480
and paula harris have done their

985
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,440
excellent look on

986
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,359
another another crash that allegedly

987
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:31,680
occurred shortly um

988
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,240
after the trinity explosion the atomic

989
00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:36,960
explosion in 1945

990
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,200
you can't dismiss these cases out of

991
00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:41,280
hand because the historical record has

992
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:42,800
left a trail

993
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:46,640
and there are arms of the american

994
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:48,240
government that have tried to obscure

995
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:49,599
that trail

996
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:51,280
that they've tried to put people off

997
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,359
they've tried to discredit people

998
00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:55,200
like frank scully the guy who wrote the

999
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:57,280
book behind the flying sources

1000
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:00,480
but the the interesting thing is that

1001
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:03,520
i i think there is evidence there

1002
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:05,680
that suggests that the united states

1003
00:36:11,910 --> 00:36:08,079
government may well have recovered

1004
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:11,920
as i think chris mellon has described it

1005
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:13,920
or actually louis lozando exotic

1006
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:15,359
technology

1007
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:20,560
think is worthy of intense investigation

1008
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:22,079
is there another country in the world

1009
00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:23,920
that has suddenly made an incredible

1010
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:26,000
advancement in technology to the extent

1011
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:29,040
that it's operating gra craft that

1012
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,160
appear to be

1013
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:32,960
capable of anti-gravity propulsion of

1014
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,760
extraordinary speeds and maneuvers where

1015
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:37,599
the occupants of the craft don't appear

1016
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:38,960
to be suffering any kind of

1017
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,200
key courses i mean the only plausible

1018
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:42,960
explanation for the kind of technology

1019
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:44,720
that we're seeing is that

1020
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:47,440
someone or something has made some kind

1021
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:48,960
of incredible

1022
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:51,680
technological advancement far beyond

1023
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:52,400
known

1024
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,079
human science that's why i find what

1025
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,640
the pentagon has essentially admitted in

1026
00:37:03,190 --> 00:36:59,920
the last two years

1027
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:03,200
so exciting and fascinating because

1028
00:37:07,990 --> 00:37:06,320
they're slowly dribbling out admissions

1029
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:08,000
that when you put them together even

1030
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,720
though they're not

1031
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:11,280
directly saying it when you put them

1032
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:12,480
together

1033
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:14,400
you're led to only one logical

1034
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:15,760
conclusion

1035
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:19,440
that there is an anomalous

1036
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:22,480
phenomenon occurring

1037
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:24,160
not only in our atmosphere it's

1038
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:25,680
occurring in the water as well

1039
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:28,800
underwater i believe it's also occurring

1040
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:32,880
in space in orbit and it's displaying

1041
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:36,640
speeds far far beyond known human

1042
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:39,760
technology maneuvers that are impossible

1043
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:42,960
with classic aerospace or rocket or

1044
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:49,510
it appears to be following those

1045
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:52,880
observables that lou elizonto has so

1046
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:54,400
well described you know

1047
00:37:57,950 --> 00:37:57,040
it's capable of stealth it's capable of

1048
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:57,960
interfering

1049
00:38:01,990 --> 00:38:00,160
electromagnetically with the the radar

1050
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:02,000
system with the observational sensor

1051
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:03,280
systems of

1052
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:05,680
terrestrial technology this is

1053
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:07,040
fascinating whatever this

1054
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:09,280
is it's way way more advanced than what

1055
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:10,400
we've got

1056
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:13,440
so this is now an acknowledged

1057
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,520
possible probable national security

1058
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:16,960
issue officially

1059
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,480
by the uap task force in its advice to

1060
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:22,240
congress it's acknowledging that there's

1061
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:24,480
a plausible national security concern

1062
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,440
here

1063
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:27,520
it is also flatly acknowledged that

1064
00:38:31,829 --> 00:38:28,880
because of the 11

1065
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:31,839
near misses that have been reported by

1066
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:33,440
u.s pilots

1067
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:36,079
in the 144 incidents that that

1068
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:38,800
preliminary report did investigate

1069
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,480
it's acknowledged that this is a flight

1070
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,000
safety issue

1071
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:44,400
so there you have it after 60 years of

1072
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,720
denials since project bluebook that the

1073
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,960
us is interested in ufos

1074
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:50,560
it turns out it's been investigating

1075
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:53,599
them all along it turns out that the um

1076
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,359
the phenomenon has been a subject of

1077
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:57,920
very very active interest by the us

1078
00:39:01,829 --> 00:39:00,079
government and different agencies

1079
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:01,839
and more importantly there's a clear

1080
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,599
understanding that it represents both a

1081
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:05,359
flight safety and a national security

1082
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:06,640
concern

1083
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,680
so why the deceit why the lying and

1084
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,680
and i think we're at a very interesting

1085
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:13,520
paradigm now a turning point

1086
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:17,680
shift in um in thinking and i i do think

1087
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:20,480
that there are people in the government

1088
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:21,440
in your government

1089
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:24,000
and possibly also in mine who are

1090
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:25,760
consciously preparing the public

1091
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:28,880
for further revelations yeah it does

1092
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:30,880
it definitely seems that way and as far

1093
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,400
as crash retrieval i

1094
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,880
i told people a couple of years ago when

1095
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:36,720
eric davis was working for earth tech

1096
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:38,240
and how put off

1097
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,839
i asked him and i said i told people i

1098
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:41,280
would give the answer i said as far as

1099
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,040
the crash retrieval program

1100
00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:45,359
how confident are you that it's real on

1101
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:47,200
a scale of one to ten

1102
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:49,359
and how many others are as confident as

1103
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:50,400
you

1104
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,400
and i haven't shared this before but i

1105
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:54,560
feel comfortable sharing this he said

1106
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:57,599
on a scale of one to ten a hundred

1107
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:01,119
i mean and he said several others most

1108
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:04,319
dead now are a hundred on the same scale

1109
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:07,680
so it's like you know i see that i see

1110
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:08,480
the comments by

1111
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:10,560
christopher mellon by luis elizondo i

1112
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:12,960
see the sarbaca comments you know

1113
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:15,200
there's so much smoke we don't have the

1114
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:17,200
fire we don't have the craft and i know

1115
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,599
for you you know you and i do i want to

1116
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:21,359
see it too i can't say i know that we

1117
00:40:24,630 --> 00:40:22,240
have a craft

1118
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:24,640
i do believe we have we have more than

1119
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,440
materials

1120
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:27,599
but it's funny to watch you you talk

1121
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:29,200
about and you've talked you've spoken to

1122
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,560
so many people who have

1123
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,560
shared information you know sources but

1124
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:34,079
you're still hesitant i see it when you

1125
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:34,480
say

1126
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:39,119
retrievals and and

1127
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,800
is that the reason because in history

1128
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:43,040
yeah i've been on the receiving end of

1129
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,640
government disinformation

1130
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:46,800
in the past you know i've stumbled

1131
00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:47,920
across

1132
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:49,599
things that i shouldn't have stumbled

1133
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,079
across i once stumbled across a thing

1134
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:54,400
that our government was involved in

1135
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,440
where we were disrupting

1136
00:41:00,870 --> 00:40:59,680
people smugglers operating in indonesia

1137
00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:00,880
bringing refugee

1138
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,960
aspirants across the straits from

1139
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:05,040
indonesia to australia

1140
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,119
our intelligence services were basically

1141
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:09,200
working with the indonesians to run what

1142
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:10,960
was essentially quite a dirty little

1143
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:11,760
operation

1144
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,880
to stop boats from leaving indonesia and

1145
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:16,800
i suspect that involves the sinking of

1146
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:19,040
boats on occasion in port not killing

1147
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:20,400
people at sea but

1148
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:22,000
i do think that there was this dirty

1149
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,599
operation going on and i kind of

1150
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:25,359
stumbled across it

1151
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,480
and i think one of the most scary times

1152
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,480
as a journalist was when i realized that

1153
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:32,000
i was on the receiving end

1154
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,720
of essentially a black disinformation

1155
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:36,640
operation by people in our intelligence

1156
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:37,520
services

1157
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:40,560
who decided to take me out and i was the

1158
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:42,640
subject of false allegations that i'd

1159
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:44,640
paid witnesses to give evidence that was

1160
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:45,760
false and

1161
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:48,480
you know it was horrible it was a really

1162
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:48,880
really

1163
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,319
nasty time and i realized wow the state

1164
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,240
wants to stop something coming out

1165
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,160
especially a black operation

1166
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:58,560
they'll do anything and it was a really

1167
00:42:01,990 --> 00:42:00,560
sobering experience for me and i was the

1168
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:02,000
father of young children

1169
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,520
and i was scared i was really scared

1170
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:07,440
and i've spoken to people in the course

1171
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:08,960
of my research

1172
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:15,510
have told me that they are on what they

1173
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:16,480
refer to

1174
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:20,000
as the program that the scientists

1175
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:23,760
or people in the military who

1176
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:27,599
have been involved in compartmentalized

1177
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:31,680
efforts to reproduce technology

1178
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:34,079
or to secure technology that they

1179
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:34,800
believe

1180
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:37,920
is of non-human origin

1181
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:41,200
and frankly i believe there's a body of

1182
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:43,119
evidence to support the fact that the us

1183
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:44,880
government has been lying

1184
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:47,599
for probably seven decades since world

1185
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:48,480
war ii to

1186
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:51,920
conceal stuff that it has recovered

1187
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:55,200
but frankly because of the risk of

1188
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:57,920
disinformation because i've seen before

1189
00:43:02,150 --> 00:42:59,440
lies being told

1190
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:02,160
to push a military or a national

1191
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:03,839
security imperative

1192
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:06,160
i will never believe it absolutely

1193
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:07,359
certainly until

1194
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:10,160
i'm literally looking at that tr-3b or

1195
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:10,640
that

1196
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:13,520
alien reproduction vehicle sitting in a

1197
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,079
hover

1198
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,640
in a cave somewhere in area 51 with

1199
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:18,560
glowing luminescent purple lights

1200
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,280
underneath it

1201
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:21,760
and scientists basically pushing buttons

1202
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:23,359
to figure out how it works

1203
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,560
because frankly there's always the risk

1204
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,440
that even though i followed a quite a

1205
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:31,520
clever strategy to try and engage

1206
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:33,839
people directly to invite them to talk

1207
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:36,240
to me about what they allegedly knew

1208
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,760
there's always the risk that i'm the

1209
00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:39,280
victim of a concerted government

1210
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:40,240
disinformation

1211
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:42,240
program that the americans for example

1212
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:44,000
are trying to

1213
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:46,079
leave their rivals with a perception

1214
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,680
that they're more advanced than they

1215
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:49,440
really are

1216
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:51,440
and yes my default is i think the

1217
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:54,000
americans have recovered technology uh

1218
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:55,839
i don't know if that involves craft

1219
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,440
necessarily but i do believe they've

1220
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:59,280
recovered technology that they believe

1221
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,720
is not human

1222
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:02,880
i don't care if people laugh at that i i

1223
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,720
know it to be honest i know it's

1224
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:06,839
for real i've been told it by too many

1225
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:08,000
people

1226
00:44:11,349 --> 00:44:09,839
the issue in my mind and i think this is

1227
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:11,359
where your friend

1228
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:13,359
and somebody i respect enormously dr

1229
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,119
eric davis comes in

1230
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:17,119
the guy who's now working for aerospace

1231
00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:19,200
corporation so he's still got

1232
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:21,760
a top secret sci clearance now he's

1233
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,599
still somebody who's respected and

1234
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,359
is protected and within the national

1235
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:27,520
security infrastructure

1236
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:30,480
of america respected as somebody who's

1237
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:30,960
um

1238
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:33,359
you know knows what he's doing he has

1239
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:35,680
gone on the record

1240
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:38,640
to talk about crashed recovered and

1241
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:39,920
landed

1242
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:43,280
ufo technology you know he's basically

1243
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:45,520
flatly asserted that there are off-world

1244
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:47,040
craft

1245
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:50,480
that are held by america

1246
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:52,319
and i've spoken to people in the

1247
00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:53,599
congress

1248
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:55,440
who are aware of briefings that were

1249
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:57,359
given by dr eric davis

1250
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:01,040
and others who've told the congress that

1251
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,880
the united states is in possession of

1252
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:04,560
non-terrestrial technology

1253
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:08,480
off-world vehicles that's mind-blowing

1254
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:10,480
and this is the thing that i find

1255
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:12,000
interesting is i mean i've had

1256
00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:14,319
conversations with journalists from

1257
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,800
washington dc who run me confidentially

1258
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:18,720
i also had a conversation a couple of

1259
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:20,240
days ago with a british journalist who

1260
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:21,920
rang me who

1261
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:24,560
was also interestingly chasing this

1262
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:25,520
issue

1263
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:27,440
and there's there's the beginning of an

1264
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:30,000
engagement with this area where

1265
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:31,440
journalists are sort of nervously

1266
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:33,200
putting their toes in the water going

1267
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:34,400
gosh

1268
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:36,319
this is this is really interesting you

1269
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:37,839
know as ross has pointed out because a

1270
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:38,960
couple of them have read my book and

1271
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:40,160
they've gone gee

1272
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,920
when you actually look at the the

1273
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,599
evidence ross has got a point you know

1274
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:45,440
there is a circumstantial case to show

1275
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,960
that there really potentially is

1276
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,480
something to this

1277
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:51,200
and so what's stopping them though

1278
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:53,359
what's still hindering them is that fear

1279
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:54,720
that they're going to be

1280
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:56,720
bollocked or ridiculed for revealing

1281
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:58,079
what they know

1282
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,319
i don't think are men in back black

1283
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:02,160
sitting in their editor's office saying

1284
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:03,920
you shall not run this story

1285
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:05,200
i still think that's quite possible

1286
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:07,200
though but i think also one of the

1287
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:08,079
problems that

1288
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:10,400
that stops the media from engaging this

1289
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:11,839
and taking it seriously

1290
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:16,000
is it's a huge problem in mass media

1291
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:18,880
mass media tends to think in a pack

1292
00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:20,079
witness what happened

1293
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:23,599
with the failure to question

1294
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:25,680
about weapons of mass destruction going

1295
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:27,599
into the iraq war

1296
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,480
you know we all in the media glibly

1297
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:32,160
accepted the assurances that we were

1298
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:34,000
given by general colin powell

1299
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:36,160
and so did he for that matter he was

1300
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:37,760
given them by the cia and

1301
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:41,040
apparently flatly lied to um you know

1302
00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:43,359
our intelligence services essentially

1303
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,400
or your and our intelligence services

1304
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:48,640
probably in a kind of a mass group thing

1305
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:51,200
colluded in self-deception

1306
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:54,400
and if that can happen

1307
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:57,839
they're also capable i think of

1308
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:00,880
deceiving the media about

1309
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,319
a covert ufo crash retrieval program

1310
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:07,119
and i i think one of the things that the

1311
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:08,560
media need to start doing is

1312
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:10,079
looking at the breadcrumbs looking at

1313
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:11,599
the trail and actually saying

1314
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:13,760
look there's something more to this you

1315
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:15,280
know cooltart's got a point

1316
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:18,240
joe murgy has got a point there really

1317
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:18,640
is

1318
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,640
a body of circumstantial evidence to

1319
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:22,319
show that historically

1320
00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:24,400
a lot of creditable people with

1321
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:26,559
reputations have come out and basically

1322
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:27,680
said

1323
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:29,200
there's something to this crash

1324
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:30,800
retrieval issue and

1325
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:32,880
instead of giggling and sort of

1326
00:47:37,829 --> 00:47:35,040
ridiculing and treating with taboo and

1327
00:47:39,510 --> 00:47:37,839
stigma this issue every time it's raised

1328
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,520
i think it's time people seriously

1329
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:41,280
started asking questions at white house

1330
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:42,480
press conferences

1331
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:43,839
you know mr president what are you going

1332
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,760
to be doing about the uap report

1333
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,760
mr president there are allegations on

1334
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:50,160
the public record from public officials

1335
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:52,559
who have said that the us has recovered

1336
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:53,920
non-human technology

1337
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:56,640
what do you say to that do you deny it

1338
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:57,680
yeah he's been asked

1339
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,440
he's only been asked once and he he

1340
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:01,200
laughed and walked away and he said ask

1341
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,640
obama so it's like that was

1342
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:04,079
disappointing and

1343
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,319
i'm hoping your book opens the door for

1344
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:08,160
more mainstream journalists national

1345
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:10,240
level journalists and it it has

1346
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:12,000
but it's died down again which we always

1347
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:13,599
see we see the ebb and flow and right

1348
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:14,480
now it's

1349
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:20,480
it's at a lull right now um but your

1350
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:21,920
book just came out

1351
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:23,599
look i know i actually know a lot's

1352
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:25,920
going on um i think one of the things

1353
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:27,119
gonna that's gonna be interesting to

1354
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,480
watch is we've got this

1355
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,960
i think there is an indication that

1356
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:32,400
there's going to be a further

1357
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:36,000
report from the uap task force but

1358
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:38,079
i mean for anybody listening to this the

1359
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:39,920
the thing i'm really worried about

1360
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:42,319
is we've seen this issue shut down

1361
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,119
before

1362
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,040
i mean the us air force very

1363
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:46,960
successfully shut down project blue book

1364
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:48,800
in the late 1960s

1365
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:51,520
um you know the the public has been very

1366
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,280
very effectively snowed for

1367
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,640
much of the past 70 years um it could

1368
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:57,920
happen again

1369
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,400
uh you know i don't think that this is

1370
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:02,880
yet engaging in the mainstream in a way

1371
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:04,720
that means that there's momentum in the

1372
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,319
congress to actually get

1373
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,640
public hearings i'm very skeptical about

1374
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:10,319
that i know i i am too

1375
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:12,240
i know louis lozando and chris mellon

1376
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:14,079
are pushing and pushing but

1377
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:16,960
um from my reading of the different

1378
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,640
senators and congressmen who

1379
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:20,880
basically made public comments about

1380
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:21,839
this

1381
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:24,160
my attempt to kind of fuel pulse of

1382
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:26,000
other people in that place

1383
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:28,160
um i don't get the impression that this

1384
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:30,480
is a political imperative

1385
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:33,280
especially not at a time of grave

1386
00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:36,400
sensitivities with china

1387
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,680
because you know essentially you know

1388
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:41,280
we are slowly drifting into a

1389
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:42,720
confrontation with china

1390
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,200
and i can understand why the military

1391
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:47,040
defence establishment might want to keep

1392
00:49:50,950 --> 00:49:48,880
secret technologies that it's developing

1393
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:50,960
in the black

1394
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:52,720
and you know i know a lot of people are

1395
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:54,319
going to hate me for this but when i'm i

1396
00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:55,760
was reading your book

1397
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:57,920
i'm reading about and let's talk about

1398
00:50:01,270 --> 00:49:59,040
go back a little bit

1399
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:01,280
rosco hillen cotter because as i'm

1400
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:02,960
reading about him

1401
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:05,920
and nightcap i wrote down in big letters

1402
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:06,800
i'm like

1403
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:10,079
helen cutter is elizondo i mean the

1404
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,200
similarities

1405
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:13,520
it's it's and i heard you talk about it

1406
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:15,040
yesterday and i was like

1407
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:16,800
i can't believe you know and how did i

1408
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:18,319
miss that the similarities and other

1409
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:19,040
people's hat

1410
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,480
other people have mentioned it so i'm

1411
00:50:23,510 --> 00:50:22,240
not the first person so that does

1412
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:23,520
concern me

1413
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:25,359
that's what amazes me is when i actually

1414
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:26,800
went through your history

1415
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:29,359
your defense archives you know it's

1416
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,400
amazing to me

1417
00:50:34,549 --> 00:50:32,240
that the history shows that there were

1418
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:34,559
very very senior officials

1419
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,319
former admirals former um uh generals

1420
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:40,559
you know senior people in your navy in

1421
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:42,880
particular like roscoe helen cotter

1422
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:44,880
who took a position they were they were

1423
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:47,200
aware of anomalous phenomenon

1424
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:50,480
who'd been seen by their flight crews

1425
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:52,240
and they were determined to do something

1426
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,000
about it and this is a guy who was

1427
00:50:59,670 --> 00:50:57,119
the founding director of your cia

1428
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:59,680
you know he created your overseas spy

1429
00:51:02,069 --> 00:51:00,559
service

1430
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:02,079
um this is a guy who was one of the

1431
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:04,400
heroes of pearl harbor and went on to

1432
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:05,040
become a

1433
00:51:08,069 --> 00:51:07,119
i think he was the captain of uss

1434
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:08,079
missouri

1435
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:11,359
a very very highly respected pillar of

1436
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:13,119
your military establishment

1437
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:16,160
happens to have been a huge proponent

1438
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:19,920
of expose of what he believes was some

1439
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:22,160
kind of ufo cover-up going on inside the

1440
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:23,599
us government

1441
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:26,000
and and there were multiple people like

1442
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:26,960
him

1443
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,440
who took a position and you can see in

1444
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:31,440
the history books they were slowly

1445
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:34,319
marginalized another guy i suspect has

1446
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:36,079
been shut down and i've reached out to

1447
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:38,000
him on multiple occasions is richard

1448
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:39,359
damato

1449
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,760
who was a former senior staffer on the

1450
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:43,440
senate intelligence committee and he's

1451
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:44,240
mentioned

1452
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:47,680
a lot in jacques valles forbidden

1453
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:48,480
science

1454
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,800
diaries which were called javaflag's

1455
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:52,319
conversations over

1456
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:54,640
many many years with people interested

1457
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:55,520
in the

1458
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:58,880
uap phenomenon and richard damato was a

1459
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:00,160
senior staffer on the senate

1460
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:02,880
intelligence committee back in the 1970s

1461
00:52:06,150 --> 00:52:05,520
making a huge effort to try and crack

1462
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:06,160
what he

1463
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:08,480
clearly believed was a to use my friend

1464
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:10,559
steve bassett's term a truth embargo

1465
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,240
inside the

1466
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:15,040
the u.s government that was blocking the

1467
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:16,640
public from knowing what was really

1468
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:18,240
going on and

1469
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,520
uh he clearly has been

1470
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:23,760
shut down i mean he now has a statement

1471
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:25,119
on his

1472
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:28,559
website where he basically says that uh

1473
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:31,680
he's got nothing more to add and

1474
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:33,359
feels nothing could be advanced by

1475
00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:37,040
taking this any further inside the uh

1476
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,720
you know inside the congress so

1477
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,720
what's going on you know why is it that

1478
00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:44,720
people like that periodically hold their

1479
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:46,079
heads up and basically

1480
00:52:49,349 --> 00:52:47,839
make statements that they think that

1481
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:49,359
people discover is

1482
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:51,760
hiding stuff and then they slowly

1483
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:52,640
disappear

1484
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:54,400
and i think that could happen again i

1485
00:52:58,150 --> 00:52:55,760
can i can tell you

1486
00:52:58,790 --> 00:52:58,160
seeing the pressure that lou elizondo

1487
00:53:02,790 --> 00:52:58,800
was

1488
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:02,800
is under when i visited in may

1489
00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:05,520
you know especially when the guy is

1490
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:06,880
copying it from

1491
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:08,960
info twitter as much as he's copying it

1492
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:10,640
from the defense

1493
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:13,920
um you know black black elements of

1494
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:14,960
intercourse

1495
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:18,079
you know this is a guy who's risked

1496
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:22,480
a lot he's sacrificed a lot to go public

1497
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:25,760
and to tell the american public that he

1498
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:27,599
believes the american government he's

1499
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:28,000
hiding

1500
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:29,920
stuff and that there needs to be

1501
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:31,599
accountability and

1502
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:34,720
transparency and you know for a lot of

1503
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,400
his efforts he's copying a bollocking

1504
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:38,240
for it as we say in australia you know

1505
00:53:41,589 --> 00:53:40,720
he's just it's making his life very

1506
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:41,599
miserable

1507
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,440
i can imagine what he would quite like

1508
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,440
to do is retire to his farm

1509
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,920
in the midwest there and put his feet up

1510
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:49,839
and work on his motorbikes and just

1511
00:53:54,790 --> 00:53:51,280
enjoy life a bit

1512
00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:54,800
and the the thing is it's a thankless

1513
00:53:57,109 --> 00:53:55,280
job

1514
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:57,119
if you're a public official and you go

1515
00:54:03,109 --> 00:53:59,760
against the grain and basically speak up

1516
00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:03,119
and even eric davis um i noticed that

1517
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:04,640
all of the interviews and all of the

1518
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:07,280
commentary that he'd given on this issue

1519
00:54:13,510 --> 00:54:10,559
occurred before he went back into the

1520
00:54:14,750 --> 00:54:13,520
defense world presumably under a

1521
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:14,760
compartmental and

1522
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,359
compartmentalized intelligence straight

1523
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:18,720
which essentially stops him from

1524
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:20,240
speaking publicly

1525
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:22,640
um aerospace corporation where he's

1526
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:24,880
working is a federally funded research

1527
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:26,400
organization

1528
00:54:31,990 --> 00:54:29,440
uh and it's amazing to me

1529
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:32,000
that somebody like eric a man of great

1530
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:33,839
reputation

1531
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:36,559
undoubted ability undoubted scientific

1532
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:37,359
expertise

1533
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,920
can make the assertion that he believes

1534
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:40,640
the us

1535
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:43,119
has recovered alien craft that's

1536
00:54:48,870 --> 00:54:45,200
fundamentally what he's saying

1537
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:48,880
and it goes out there

1538
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:52,079
and it disappears that's it you know

1539
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:54,720
and and i i i wait to see i mean one of

1540
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:56,000
the things a lot of people have said is

1541
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:57,680
how good it is that new york times

1542
00:55:01,670 --> 00:55:01,359
has run what it has run and it is good

1543
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:01,680
but

1544
00:55:07,430 --> 00:55:05,040
i am i'm also aware as you are of

1545
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:07,440
that leslie kane and ralph blumenthal

1546
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:08,559
had talked about

1547
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:10,559
particularly in the social media forums

1548
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:11,760
that they've engaged with

1549
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:14,880
um off the main pages of the newspaper

1550
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:15,359
and

1551
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:17,280
you know ralph blumenthal particularly

1552
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:19,440
is hinted very strongly that he thinks

1553
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:20,880
that the united states

1554
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:24,000
has recovered craft technology

1555
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:26,160
this this is an imminent reporter for

1556
00:55:32,309 --> 00:55:29,440
the new york times newspaper

1557
00:55:35,109 --> 00:55:32,319
senior officials in your military

1558
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:35,119
industrial scientific establishment

1559
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:39,040
uh louis lozando chris mellon eric davis

1560
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:41,359
and others that i've spoken to have

1561
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:43,440
indicated there's something to this even

1562
00:55:47,349 --> 00:55:45,760
president obama former president obama

1563
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:47,359
when he was doing an interview just very

1564
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:48,480
recently

1565
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:51,520
he dropped a huge hint that this is

1566
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:54,000
worthy of intense investigation

1567
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:56,400
and even trump your former president

1568
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:57,040
until

1569
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,240
uh you know earlier this year he he did

1570
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:02,559
that interview with his son don jr where

1571
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:03,040
he

1572
00:56:18,309 --> 00:56:17,190
i've spoken to people in your government

1573
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:18,319
who who

1574
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:20,400
titted nervously about trump because

1575
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:21,760
they were really worried he was going to

1576
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:23,680
say stuff that he shouldn't have

1577
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:25,760
and ultimately at the bottom of all of

1578
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:28,799
this joe i have this suspicion

1579
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:31,040
i like to think the best of the people

1580
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:31,839
that run

1581
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:35,599
uh defence intelligence establishment

1582
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:37,839
i don't think they're evil people uh

1583
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:39,760
i've been privileged when i did the

1584
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,079
communications surveillance story on

1585
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:44,640
the echelon communication system i was

1586
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:45,280
privileged

1587
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:48,160
to engage with your nsa and also with

1588
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:49,119
our

1589
00:56:52,789 --> 00:56:50,960
australian signals directorate in the

1590
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:52,799
defence signals directorate

1591
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,280
and rather than block me off they engage

1592
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:57,359
with me as a serious and sex journalist

1593
00:57:00,390 --> 00:56:58,400
and

1594
00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:00,400
you know i was concerned for example

1595
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:01,760
that the communication

1596
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:03,760
surveillance system i'd been fed a lion

1597
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:06,000
that america might be misusing this

1598
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:07,839
tapping technology for

1599
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:10,000
economic advantage that australia might

1600
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:12,000
be losing contracts because america

1601
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,480
was essentially using this awesome spy

1602
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:16,720
system to gain an edge in giving

1603
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:18,559
companies an advantage against

1604
00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:19,760
australian company

1605
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:21,920
and so i was questioning as a journalist

1606
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:23,920
you know why are we part of this five

1607
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:25,440
eyes alliance

1608
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:28,880
and so i um

1609
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:31,680
i was shown or given a briefing about

1610
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:32,640
the tasking

1611
00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:35,359
for the geraldton satellite interception

1612
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:37,839
that the yukuta echelon system

1613
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:40,079
uh operated over the indian ocean that

1614
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:41,440
was tapping essentially into north

1615
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:43,359
korean communications

1616
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:45,680
and i could see that that what we were

1617
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:47,359
doing was fundamentally

1618
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:49,359
good stuff you know we were essentially

1619
00:57:53,829 --> 00:57:51,520
monitoring and i'd known this already

1620
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:53,839
i've spoken to my own sources in the

1621
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:55,440
intelligence services who'd given me

1622
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:57,200
their own take on this

1623
00:58:02,069 --> 00:57:59,839
and i like to think in a similar way

1624
00:58:04,150 --> 00:58:02,079
that the reasons why

1625
00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:04,160
there is a cover-up and there is there

1626
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,440
is a cover-up

1627
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,359
i like to think that there's some reason

1628
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:09,040
that this is being kept secret

1629
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:11,839
it's more than just embarrassment

1630
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:12,640
because

1631
00:58:19,270 --> 00:58:16,000
the one thing that worries me

1632
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:19,280
is that it was kept secret for

1633
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:21,680
a whole series of slightly lame reasons

1634
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:22,799
through the cold war

1635
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:24,559
that you know we didn't want to alarm

1636
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:25,839
the public

1637
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:28,720
we uh we had religious objections to

1638
00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:29,920
revealing the existence of

1639
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:31,440
extraterrestrials if that's

1640
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:34,640
the case um you know that essentially we

1641
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:36,640
didn't want to confuse

1642
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,799
early warning systems by having too many

1643
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:40,480
public sightings on a normal subject

1644
00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:41,920
that we knew were

1645
00:58:47,829 --> 00:58:45,599
others um you know is it is it plausible

1646
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:47,839
that that benign explanation is the more

1647
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:50,640
plausible explanation or is it that

1648
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:52,480
the military just simply doesn't like

1649
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:54,480
admitting that there is a technology

1650
00:58:57,109 --> 00:58:56,640
that is far more advanced than theirs

1651
00:59:01,510 --> 00:58:57,119
that

1652
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:01,520
is operating on our planet or

1653
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:04,880
is it that we are developing technology

1654
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:08,319
in the black which we haven't cracked

1655
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:10,319
yet but we're very very close to

1656
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:11,680
cracking

1657
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:13,599
and we don't want to give our

1658
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:15,599
adversaries in those authoritarian

1659
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:18,640
regimes such as russia such as china

1660
00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,160
we don't want to give them a strategic

1661
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:22,480
advantage by being forced to reveal

1662
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:25,119
what we do have or what you the american

1663
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:27,359
government do have

1664
00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:30,240
i don't know which one of those to think

1665
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:30,559
but

1666
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:33,440
i like to think the best possible

1667
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:35,359
interpretation because i don't think

1668
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:36,640
these are bad people

1669
00:59:40,630 --> 00:59:38,880
yeah you get some rotten generals and

1670
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:40,640
rotten admirals and rotten air force

1671
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:42,000
officers

1672
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:43,760
and yes there are people i suspect in

1673
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:45,599
the air force who are just kind of

1674
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:47,200
dampened the whole thing down and would

1675
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,960
rather it just all went away and

1676
00:59:52,870 --> 00:59:50,400
continue doing what they've been doing

1677
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:52,880
for the last 50 to 70 years

1678
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:54,880
but i do think and the evidence is borne

1679
00:59:58,829 --> 00:59:57,440
out by the wikileaks emails from the dnc

1680
01:00:02,390 --> 00:59:58,839
database

1681
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:02,400
the emails that show the links between

1682
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:04,640
tom delong the punk rock star

1683
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:06,880
a couple of generals a guy from lockheed

1684
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:08,000
martin scout works

1685
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:09,599
and john podesta hillary clinton's

1686
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:11,200
campaign manager

1687
01:00:15,190 --> 01:00:13,200
i do think the evidence shows that there

1688
01:00:17,109 --> 01:00:15,200
was some in the military who were

1689
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:17,119
prepared to engage to disclose

1690
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:19,280
disclosure with hillary clinton

1691
01:00:23,430 --> 01:00:20,799
as a hillary clinton disclosure

1692
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:23,440
presidency and that's fascinating to me

1693
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:24,720
you know the fact that there are people

1694
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:26,160
in our military who are prepared to

1695
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:29,359
consider transparency and accountability

1696
01:00:32,549 --> 01:00:31,040
what i don't understand is why it's

1697
01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:32,559
still kept secret

1698
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:35,839
and you know normally a journal like me

1699
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:37,440
operating at the levels that i've been

1700
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:38,880
operating at

1701
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:41,280
i've engaged with some very very senior

1702
01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:43,440
people in your government

1703
01:00:47,030 --> 01:00:45,200
and normally i would have been taken

1704
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:47,040
aside at some stage and told

1705
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:49,760
if there was a national security concern

1706
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:51,920
i would have been told look ross

1707
01:00:58,789 --> 01:00:54,720
the reason we can't reveal this is

1708
01:01:02,789 --> 01:01:01,589
and that hasn't happened and so

1709
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:02,799
ultimately

1710
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:05,520
i am led to the view that this is just a

1711
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:06,559
big embarrassment

1712
01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:09,359
for our military your military uh that

1713
01:01:11,589 --> 01:01:10,960
essentially this has been kept secret

1714
01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:11,599
for far

1715
01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:14,640
too long uh the reasons why they've kept

1716
01:01:17,829 --> 01:01:16,400
it secret are now unsustainable and

1717
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:17,839
implausible

1718
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:20,160
and it's time it was brought out and who

1719
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:21,280
gives a toss if

1720
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:23,200
a few generals and air force officers

1721
01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:24,880
along the way might be court-martialed

1722
01:01:30,390 --> 01:01:25,760
and

1723
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:30,400
presidents

1724
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:32,960
if that's the case what if you were

1725
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:34,079
pulled aside because i know you've

1726
01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:36,480
spoken about this before and they said

1727
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:38,960
ross this is the reason it's being kept

1728
01:01:41,670 --> 01:01:39,760
secret

1729
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:41,680
we need you to not report this and they

1730
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:43,119
show you something and it's just so

1731
01:01:47,910 --> 01:01:45,359
troubling it's it's something that's

1732
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:47,920
the majority of human beings would not

1733
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:49,520
be able to handle would you keep that if

1734
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:50,079
they said

1735
01:01:53,910 --> 01:01:51,920
here you go but we would wish that you

1736
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:53,920
do not release this because it could

1737
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,720
cause

1738
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:57,039
havoc on the globe would you keep it to

1739
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:58,400
yourself or would you not report that

1740
01:02:01,910 --> 01:01:59,680
would that would you consider that

1741
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:01,920
enough of a national security issue

1742
01:02:05,109 --> 01:02:03,359
i think just because people might get

1743
01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:05,119
upset by the revelation isn't a reason

1744
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:06,000
to keep it secret

1745
01:02:09,349 --> 01:02:07,520
i think i'd need some very strong

1746
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:09,359
evidence to explain to me why it should

1747
01:02:12,870 --> 01:02:10,640
be kept secret

1748
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:12,880
i mean i look uh i'll give you an

1749
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:14,319
example joe i mean i've

1750
01:02:19,109 --> 01:02:17,359
uh i'm i've stumbled i worked as a

1751
01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:19,119
foreign correspondent for a while and i

1752
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:21,920
i knew the names of the cia station

1753
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:23,280
agents that were operating in a

1754
01:02:28,710 --> 01:02:24,880
particular country

1755
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:28,720
um i could have i suppose compromised

1756
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:29,039
them

1757
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:30,880
and the names of australian and new

1758
01:02:35,430 --> 01:02:32,799
zealand intelligence officers

1759
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:35,440
that were operating in what i knew was

1760
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:37,520
an operation that was operating for both

1761
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:39,839
of our countries mutual interest

1762
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:42,480
but i chose not to uh because i'm a

1763
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:44,640
patriotic person i think that

1764
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:47,680
you know we are engaged as a country as

1765
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:50,559
a as an alliance

1766
01:02:54,150 --> 01:02:53,440
in a much more serious and sober clash

1767
01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:54,160
with

1768
01:02:58,470 --> 01:02:56,720
authoritarian regimes and downright evil

1769
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:58,480
terrorist regimes than

1770
01:03:01,510 --> 01:03:00,240
i think publicly many of our governments

1771
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:01,520
care to admit

1772
01:03:05,349 --> 01:03:03,599
and yes there is a need for national

1773
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:05,359
security restraints on what

1774
01:03:09,510 --> 01:03:07,760
is published we don't want to compromise

1775
01:03:11,270 --> 01:03:09,520
the names of intelligence officials i

1776
01:03:15,109 --> 01:03:11,280
don't want to compromise

1777
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:15,119
ongoing intelligence operations and um

1778
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:16,559
i don't think though that's an excuse to

1779
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:18,640
conceal something that's embarrassing

1780
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:22,400
which is distressing uh as i say in my

1781
01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:23,039
book

1782
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,520
we can handle the truth this isn't a

1783
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:27,039
colonel jessup situation

1784
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:30,079
where uh you know the public

1785
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:32,960
can't handle the truth so we really can

1786
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:33,680
you know if

1787
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:35,680
if this is something that is purely just

1788
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:36,880
going to be confronting

1789
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:40,000
to religious people it might challenge

1790
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:42,240
our spiritual notions of ourselves

1791
01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:44,319
as human beings our exceptionalism as

1792
01:03:46,789 --> 01:03:46,160
human beings that's not an adequate

1793
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:46,799
experience

1794
01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:49,119
i take some persuading i suppose that

1795
01:03:51,750 --> 01:03:50,640
it's necessary for this to be kept

1796
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:51,760
secret

1797
01:03:55,349 --> 01:03:54,400
but if for example let's let's assume

1798
01:03:58,710 --> 01:03:55,359
that

1799
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:58,720
there's a problem in developing this

1800
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:00,240
technology because that's what eric

1801
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:02,640
suggested eric davis has did i think in

1802
01:04:06,710 --> 01:04:04,480
a number of interviews that

1803
01:04:07,910 --> 01:04:06,720
efforts to re-engineer this technology

1804
01:04:13,109 --> 01:04:07,920
stopped around

1805
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:15,589
yeah eric it's like eric says that and

1806
01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:17,359
there are other people who say that

1807
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:19,280
um but then you have will miller who i

1808
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:20,880
interviewed and he's like oh no

1809
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:22,400
we've got these craft you know he's been

1810
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:23,839
talking about that for a long time he's

1811
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:25,440
like we have craft i can go anywhere any

1812
01:04:29,349 --> 01:04:26,480
place

1813
01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:29,359
anytime in the universe so i think do

1814
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,640
you agree with this if

1815
01:04:34,710 --> 01:04:32,880
we if we have that type of technology

1816
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:34,720
any level between

1817
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:37,280
you know just some progress to compare

1818
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:38,720
to what will miller says where we've

1819
01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:39,680
mastered it

1820
01:04:42,549 --> 01:04:40,799
do you think that would be more

1821
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:42,559
classified than just if ets were

1822
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:44,000
visiting because i didn't i think it

1823
01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:44,880
would be

1824
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:47,680
if you had that tag i think frankly i

1825
01:04:50,630 --> 01:04:48,880
don't think most humans would be

1826
01:04:52,069 --> 01:04:50,640
surprised if there were other life forms

1827
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:52,079
when i think we've been being prepared

1828
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:53,359
for it for

1829
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:55,200
popular through popular culture for much

1830
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:57,119
of the last 40 or 50 years you know our

1831
01:05:00,789 --> 01:04:58,720
society is obsessed

1832
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:00,799
we're fascinated with the idea that it

1833
01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:02,400
might be other life forms and

1834
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:04,480
i think largely we tend to see it as

1835
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:06,160
benevolent even though hollywood's spent

1836
01:05:07,990 --> 01:05:07,760
a large amount of money in the last few

1837
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:08,000
years

1838
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:09,760
trying to scare the hell out of us you

1839
01:05:14,230 --> 01:05:11,839
know armageddon independence day

1840
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:14,240
you know the the notion that that that

1841
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:15,760
aliens might be a threat

1842
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:17,839
i think most people don't really think

1843
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:18,960
that

1844
01:05:22,390 --> 01:05:21,520
one of my favorite movies is a rival

1845
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:22,400
which i think is

1846
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:26,319
brilliant really encapsulates in my mind

1847
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:29,039
the notion that whatever it is the

1848
01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:29,760
intelligence

1849
01:05:33,750 --> 01:05:31,760
that is out there and i think there is

1850
01:05:36,150 --> 01:05:33,760
one i'm sure there is

1851
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:36,160
um whatever it is part of the issue for

1852
01:05:39,430 --> 01:05:37,440
us is communication

1853
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:39,440
just understanding how to communicate

1854
01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:40,640
with it

1855
01:05:44,309 --> 01:05:42,480
but let's come back to a moment for what

1856
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:44,319
you're talking about yes

1857
01:05:47,670 --> 01:05:46,960
if the us is developing this technology

1858
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:47,680
in the black

1859
01:05:54,870 --> 01:05:52,160
if there is and i think there is

1860
01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:54,880
a huge black program that's trying to

1861
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:55,680
develop

1862
01:05:58,870 --> 01:05:58,640
this technology i would keep that secret

1863
01:06:02,470 --> 01:05:58,880
as

1864
01:06:04,950 --> 01:06:02,480
that

1865
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:04,960
has crossed my mind and i start my book

1866
01:06:10,230 --> 01:06:05,520
with

1867
01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:10,240
an incident in north west cape in 1991

1868
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:13,200
where an australian woman was traveling

1869
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:14,559
in the company with two

1870
01:06:18,309 --> 01:06:16,480
security policemen from our federal

1871
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:18,319
police service from

1872
01:06:22,710 --> 01:06:20,960
a u.s base a classified highly top

1873
01:06:26,069 --> 01:06:22,720
secret u.s base

1874
01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:26,079
uh way up in northwest cape in

1875
01:06:29,349 --> 01:06:28,160
australia's north west in western

1876
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,359
australia

1877
01:06:32,470 --> 01:06:31,520
and uh it's a it's a base that's

1878
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:32,480
targeting

1879
01:06:35,829 --> 01:06:34,960
uh submarines with communications

1880
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:35,839
signals

1881
01:06:42,549 --> 01:06:40,160
on the huge vlf very low frequency array

1882
01:06:44,829 --> 01:06:42,559
um that's erected hundreds of meters

1883
01:06:47,109 --> 01:06:44,839
into the air in this piece of barren

1884
01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:47,119
land nowhere in australia

1885
01:06:51,270 --> 01:06:49,280
and it communicates with submarines

1886
01:06:51,589 --> 01:06:51,280
notably in the event of nuclear war it's

1887
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,599
where

1888
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:53,599
your american government sends out the

1889
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:55,440
signals to launch the missiles

1890
01:06:59,990 --> 01:06:58,160
and it can send these signals underwater

1891
01:07:00,710 --> 01:07:00,000
thereby protecting the submarines from

1892
01:07:04,230 --> 01:07:00,720
detection

1893
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:04,240
of soviet russian satellites

1894
01:07:12,069 --> 01:07:08,559
and um any store a huge

1895
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:12,079
triangular black craft hovering

1896
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,880
over their car early one morning as he

1897
01:07:17,670 --> 01:07:16,559
was driving back from this base with

1898
01:07:19,270 --> 01:07:17,680
these two policemen

1899
01:07:21,190 --> 01:07:19,280
and it was a craft that was

1900
01:07:23,589 --> 01:07:21,200
intelligently controlled that

1901
01:07:25,829 --> 01:07:23,599
displayed speeds and maneuvers that were

1902
01:07:27,510 --> 01:07:25,839
just mind-boggling to her

1903
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:27,520
but the thing that i think about that

1904
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:29,440
incident fascinates me the most

1905
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:32,559
is the americans

1906
01:07:37,990 --> 01:07:35,760
weren't so much interested in what

1907
01:07:39,190 --> 01:07:38,000
she could tell them about the object

1908
01:07:42,230 --> 01:07:39,200
they were more interested

1909
01:07:43,990 --> 01:07:42,240
in the not talking about it and her

1910
01:07:45,589 --> 01:07:44,000
walking away with the delusion that it

1911
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:45,599
was a weather balloon

1912
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:48,880
they were trying to shut her down and uh

1913
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:50,559
you know implicitly there was the threat

1914
01:07:54,549 --> 01:07:52,559
that she shouldn't talk about

1915
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:54,559
and certainly the two policemen that she

1916
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:56,079
was with were

1917
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:58,079
bullied and intimidated into keeping

1918
01:08:02,390 --> 01:08:00,480
quiet about what they saw they genuinely

1919
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:02,400
feared for their lives

1920
01:08:07,589 --> 01:08:05,760
and i'm very

1921
01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:07,599
speculating in my head but i'm very much

1922
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:09,520
of the view that

1923
01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:11,680
i think it's possible the us has been

1924
01:08:17,669 --> 01:08:14,400
testing technology that it used to test

1925
01:08:19,189 --> 01:08:17,679
at area 51 in northwestern australia in

1926
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:19,199
one of the most remote parts of the

1927
01:08:22,149 --> 01:08:20,080
world

1928
01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:22,159
at the secure base that it operated

1929
01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:24,319
until 1991

1930
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:26,000
and i don't think it's any coincidence

1931
01:08:29,829 --> 01:08:28,000
that in and around that time

1932
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:29,839
this is when george knapp was breaking

1933
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:32,400
the revelations about area 51 you'd be

1934
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:34,560
being used for testing

1935
01:08:38,309 --> 01:08:36,400
new and interesting craft you've got the

1936
01:08:41,269 --> 01:08:38,319
bob lazar allegations they put

1937
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:41,279
one of those but essentially area 51 was

1938
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:41,839
blown

1939
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:44,400
as a secret nevada test brain you know

1940
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:46,159
you couldn't fly

1941
01:08:49,990 --> 01:08:48,960
exotic aerospace craft anymore in and

1942
01:08:51,910 --> 01:08:50,000
around there without

1943
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:51,920
jim goodall and others having huge

1944
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:53,759
lenses at the end of runways

1945
01:08:57,910 --> 01:08:56,080
catching snaps of what was coming out

1946
01:09:00,870 --> 01:08:57,920
and so i don't think it's inconceivable

1947
01:09:02,709 --> 01:09:00,880
at all that what the us was

1948
01:09:03,990 --> 01:09:02,719
you know demanding to do was to find a

1949
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:04,000
different location

1950
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:07,120
and the way in which the

1951
01:09:10,149 --> 01:09:09,359
investigations into that pyramid look

1952
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:10,159
triangular

1953
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:13,199
ufo incident in 1991

1954
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:15,600
the way those investigations went

1955
01:09:19,189 --> 01:09:16,239
suggests

1956
01:09:19,749 --> 01:09:19,199
to me that it wasn't a surprise to the

1957
01:09:22,390 --> 01:09:19,759
u.s

1958
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:22,400
what was seen by this person what was a

1959
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:23,040
concern

1960
01:09:26,950 --> 01:09:25,040
was her talking about it making the

1961
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:26,960
public aware of it

1962
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:29,040
and there's a question mark in my mind

1963
01:09:32,950 --> 01:09:31,359
is the u.s testing technology

1964
01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:32,960
in the black and different parts of the

1965
01:09:37,110 --> 01:09:35,359
world um

1966
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:37,120
i do think it's possible that australia

1967
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:38,400
has been used for that

1968
01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:39,839
whether our government knows about that

1969
01:09:44,630 --> 01:09:41,759
or not

1970
01:09:45,990 --> 01:09:44,640
that's one of them that that suggests

1971
01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:46,000
that possibly we are

1972
01:09:50,870 --> 01:09:48,319
testing or you are testing technology

1973
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:50,880
that the world doesn't yet know about

1974
01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:54,320
um which frankly if i was the us air

1975
01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:56,000
force i'd want to keep secret

1976
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:58,400
you know in the event of a war one of

1977
01:10:01,990 --> 01:10:00,080
the um

1978
01:10:03,990 --> 01:10:02,000
the fundamental principles of war

1979
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:04,000
fighting is surprise

1980
01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:05,440
you know you don't want your enemy to

1981
01:10:10,149 --> 01:10:07,679
know what your capabilities are

1982
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:10,159
uh and is it outside the realm of

1983
01:10:14,070 --> 01:10:10,960
possibility

1984
01:10:16,790 --> 01:10:14,080
the us has and is developing

1985
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:16,800
anti-gravity propulsion technology and

1986
01:10:19,669 --> 01:10:17,760
awesome in

1987
01:10:21,270 --> 01:10:19,679
energy systems and awesome stealth

1988
01:10:23,189 --> 01:10:21,280
systems in the black that they haven't

1989
01:10:25,189 --> 01:10:23,199
yet publicly disclosed

1990
01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:25,199
yes i do i sincerely hope that that's

1991
01:10:29,669 --> 01:10:28,000
the case i really do hope that the us is

1992
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:29,679
out there doing it because i'd rather

1993
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:30,480
it's the u.s

1994
01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:32,800
and china or russia it's going to help

1995
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:35,120
us all if they are

1996
01:10:39,270 --> 01:10:36,880
yeah and along the lines of whether or

1997
01:10:40,149 --> 01:10:39,280
not we have developed that technology

1998
01:10:42,470 --> 01:10:40,159
you know

1999
01:10:44,470 --> 01:10:42,480
i met will miller back in 2000 i didn't

2000
01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:44,480
realize how important of a player he was

2001
01:10:47,270 --> 01:10:45,360
back then

2002
01:10:49,110 --> 01:10:47,280
and um one of the things he said during

2003
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:49,120
his interviews he said

2004
01:10:52,709 --> 01:10:50,800
he said he met somebody he had a friend

2005
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:52,719
who worked at area 51 and as the guy was

2006
01:10:56,709 --> 01:10:53,360
leaving

2007
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:56,719
the guy took him aside and said

2008
01:11:00,790 --> 01:10:58,400
you know will some of the folks you talk

2009
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:00,800
with maybe some c seti researchers

2010
01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:02,880
and that was dr stephen greer's original

2011
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:03,840
organization

2012
01:11:06,950 --> 01:11:05,520
so they may see some objects that are

2013
01:11:08,709 --> 01:11:06,960
doing you know mach 9

2014
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:08,719
and then suddenly make a right right

2015
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:10,000
angle return and you say

2016
01:11:13,189 --> 01:11:11,360
well gosh that's got to be an

2017
01:11:15,110 --> 01:11:13,199
extraterrestrial craft

2018
01:11:17,110 --> 01:11:15,120
and then he looked at me and he said but

2019
01:11:19,510 --> 01:11:17,120
it's not and he just walked and turned

2020
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:19,520
he turned and walked away so it's like

2021
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:23,199
you know i want i see that and i'm like

2022
01:11:27,750 --> 01:11:25,600
maybe we do have this and i and will it

2023
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:27,760
will is somebody he bucks

2024
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:29,760
these guys will not talk about that

2025
01:11:33,110 --> 01:11:31,440
stuff i've had nobody else talk to me

2026
01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:33,120
about the possibility of us having this

2027
01:11:38,070 --> 01:11:34,000
kind of

2028
01:11:39,350 --> 01:11:38,080
seems like he believes if

2029
01:11:41,510 --> 01:11:39,360
you know he believes we have it and he

2030
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:41,520
believes it's our right to know about it

2031
01:11:46,149 --> 01:11:43,280
and he's really pushing the edge

2032
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:46,159
um obviously i don't think he's yeah

2033
01:11:50,149 --> 01:11:47,840
when you do have people like will

2034
01:11:51,669 --> 01:11:50,159
saying that i mean he was i know part of

2035
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:51,679
the meeting with stephen greer that went

2036
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:53,600
into the pentagon to talk to tom wilson

2037
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:54,880
in 2002

2038
01:11:57,990 --> 01:11:57,120
you know the original meeting where

2039
01:11:59,990 --> 01:11:58,000
allegedly

2040
01:12:01,590 --> 01:12:00,000
the then deputy director of the defense

2041
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:01,600
intelligence agency

2042
01:12:04,709 --> 01:12:03,360
learned for the first time about the

2043
01:12:07,990 --> 01:12:04,719
existence of

2044
01:12:11,030 --> 01:12:08,000
secret ufo retrieval programs inside

2045
01:12:13,110 --> 01:12:11,040
the military complex that he was part of

2046
01:12:14,950 --> 01:12:13,120
and which he is a j2 had not been

2047
01:12:18,550 --> 01:12:14,960
briefed on

2048
01:12:20,149 --> 01:12:18,560
if that's true but what's interesting is

2049
01:12:23,030 --> 01:12:20,159
i noticed will miller sort of pulled his

2050
01:12:27,270 --> 01:12:23,040
punches since he's kept quiet since

2051
01:12:29,030 --> 01:12:27,280
and look i like to think you know i mean

2052
01:12:31,030 --> 01:12:29,040
i i yeah i mean just coming back for a

2053
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:31,040
moment to your question if somebody from

2054
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:32,880
the us government or my government

2055
01:12:39,510 --> 01:12:36,480
contacted me and said ross

2056
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:39,520
we want you to know that we have this

2057
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:40,640
technology

2058
01:12:47,910 --> 01:12:45,120
but you can't report this part of it

2059
01:12:51,510 --> 01:12:47,920
because to do that and compromise an

2060
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:51,520
operation or a national security concern

2061
01:12:55,590 --> 01:12:54,960
every journalist would weigh the public

2062
01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:55,600
interest

2063
01:12:59,910 --> 01:12:57,440
before determining whether or not they

2064
01:13:03,669 --> 01:12:59,920
should publish

2065
01:13:05,669 --> 01:13:03,679
you have to do that i mean i've been

2066
01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:05,679
confronted i remember once

2067
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:07,760
i can remember once uh i was doing an

2068
01:13:12,470 --> 01:13:09,120
investigation into

2069
01:13:16,229 --> 01:13:12,480
um alleged corruption inside our

2070
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:16,239
tax office and uh

2071
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:18,000
this is well before the days of

2072
01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:20,320
wikileaks and things like that but

2073
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:21,920
i've never been leaked an entire

2074
01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:23,600
database before but

2075
01:13:27,830 --> 01:13:26,000
um i i'd run a couple of stories about

2076
01:13:28,870 --> 01:13:27,840
how there were organized crime figures

2077
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:28,880
from the italian

2078
01:13:32,709 --> 01:13:31,520
drungata mafia who were actually working

2079
01:13:34,630 --> 01:13:32,719
in the tax office

2080
01:13:36,790 --> 01:13:34,640
and who were doing dodgy things with our

2081
01:13:40,390 --> 01:13:36,800
tax department and um

2082
01:13:43,350 --> 01:13:40,400
one day a high-speed tape

2083
01:13:44,470 --> 01:13:43,360
which was the sort of top backup system

2084
01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:44,480
of the time

2085
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:46,960
a lunch box full of high-speed tapes

2086
01:13:50,229 --> 01:13:47,600
arrived

2087
01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:50,239
you know post-pac envelope in my office

2088
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,920
and i'd never seen these type of tapes

2089
01:13:55,830 --> 01:13:53,760
before and there was only one place

2090
01:13:57,110 --> 01:13:55,840
in the entire tv network where i worked

2091
01:13:59,910 --> 01:13:57,120
where we could actually

2092
01:14:01,350 --> 01:13:59,920
view these tapes and we could only view

2093
01:14:02,950 --> 01:14:01,360
it for half an hour because it was where

2094
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:02,960
the corporate backup for the whole

2095
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:04,080
network was done

2096
01:14:09,430 --> 01:14:07,440
inside this um temperature-controlled

2097
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:09,440
phylo inside the network which was a

2098
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:10,800
secure room

2099
01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,800
and so the head of it took me and we

2100
01:14:16,709 --> 01:14:14,560
plugged in one of these tapes

2101
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:16,719
and we started looking at it on a screen

2102
01:14:19,430 --> 01:14:18,480
and we realized that what i was looking

2103
01:14:22,470 --> 01:14:19,440
at

2104
01:14:26,070 --> 01:14:22,480
were the unsecured unencrypted

2105
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:26,080
names and addresses and tax details of

2106
01:14:30,790 --> 01:14:29,040
very respectable vip public figures

2107
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:30,800
politicians

2108
01:14:35,110 --> 01:14:32,960
rock stars celebrities all over

2109
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:35,120
australia and it was their tax records

2110
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:36,960
i saw some very famous hollywood actors

2111
01:14:41,030 --> 01:14:38,560
names in there

2112
01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:41,040
and we scanned through it for 20 minutes

2113
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:43,840
and then i looked at him and i said well

2114
01:14:47,189 --> 01:14:46,239
i shouldn't have these and he said no

2115
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,199
you shouldn't

2116
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:49,440
and i said i can think of about 20

2117
01:14:54,149 --> 01:14:50,880
different laws that we

2118
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:54,159
committed breaches of budget

2119
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:56,400
because you know the the tax office in

2120
01:14:59,270 --> 01:14:57,679
australia and i'm sure it's the same

2121
01:15:02,390 --> 01:14:59,280
with your tax office in america

2122
01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:02,400
it's merciless in protecting the um

2123
01:15:06,470 --> 01:15:04,640
the private records of citizens so it

2124
01:15:07,270 --> 01:15:06,480
should be i wouldn't want my tax records

2125
01:15:10,149 --> 01:15:07,280
out there and

2126
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:10,159
you wouldn't want yours and so it i

2127
01:15:14,870 --> 01:15:11,760
realized that what had happened

2128
01:15:17,030 --> 01:15:14,880
was incredibly back in those days

2129
01:15:19,669 --> 01:15:17,040
companies including the tax office did

2130
01:15:22,070 --> 01:15:19,679
corporate backups of the it systems

2131
01:15:22,870 --> 01:15:22,080
and they would literally leave the

2132
01:15:25,990 --> 01:15:22,880
backups

2133
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:26,000
in the foyer of the tax office for

2134
01:15:29,430 --> 01:15:27,280
pickup by the

2135
01:15:31,189 --> 01:15:29,440
courier that afternoon and it would just

2136
01:15:32,630 --> 01:15:31,199
be an anonymous lunchbox that was left

2137
01:15:34,630 --> 01:15:32,640
in a corner of the foyer and the

2138
01:15:36,149 --> 01:15:34,640
motorcycle courier would come in

2139
01:15:37,830 --> 01:15:36,159
and it turned out the security guards

2140
01:15:39,430 --> 01:15:37,840
just couldn't be bothered handling the

2141
01:15:40,950 --> 01:15:39,440
paperwork at the deck so they just left

2142
01:15:42,630 --> 01:15:40,960
it in front of the foyer and

2143
01:15:44,790 --> 01:15:42,640
these guys in a helmet would come in and

2144
01:15:46,709 --> 01:15:44,800
just grab the box and go off

2145
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:46,719
and so some i never found out who the

2146
01:15:49,510 --> 01:15:48,880
source was but some sources realized

2147
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:49,520
that

2148
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:53,280
going to piss off the tax office and

2149
01:15:57,590 --> 01:15:55,440
they flopped the lunch box

2150
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:57,600
and so they'd literally flogged the

2151
01:16:00,390 --> 01:15:59,280
lunch box by just walking in with a

2152
01:16:02,229 --> 01:16:00,400
helmet on me here

2153
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:02,239
i was told by my sources in the tax

2154
01:16:05,430 --> 01:16:03,920
office when they reviewed the cctv

2155
01:16:07,830 --> 01:16:05,440
vision that's exactly what happened

2156
01:16:11,830 --> 01:16:07,840
because they couldn't identify the guy

2157
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:11,840
and um i basically said

2158
01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:13,280
to the tax office look i'm giving you

2159
01:16:17,350 --> 01:16:14,880
this box back

2160
01:16:19,110 --> 01:16:17,360
i'm not going to do a story about it i

2161
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:19,120
haven't kept a backup copy

2162
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:21,920
and i shouldn't have that information

2163
01:16:24,870 --> 01:16:22,320
and

2164
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:24,880
as a journalist i could have generated a

2165
01:16:28,390 --> 01:16:26,640
thousand stories

2166
01:16:30,390 --> 01:16:28,400
out of the information that i've been

2167
01:16:33,669 --> 01:16:30,400
leaked but i

2168
01:16:34,390 --> 01:16:33,679
took the decision that the laws are so

2169
01:16:36,950 --> 01:16:34,400
punitive

2170
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:36,960
the public interest is so immense i

2171
01:16:41,110 --> 01:16:39,040
shouldn't have that information

2172
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:41,120
did i do the wrong thing some people

2173
01:16:44,950 --> 01:16:42,080
might say that but

2174
01:16:46,149 --> 01:16:44,960
i actually don't think i did i i'm glad

2175
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:46,159
i gave it back

2176
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:48,400
yeah you're one of the good people yeah

2177
01:16:51,350 --> 01:16:49,280
but but i

2178
01:16:52,709 --> 01:16:51,360
i i think occasionally in national

2179
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:52,719
security issues

2180
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:55,280
if the us has developed anti-gravity

2181
01:17:00,310 --> 01:16:57,840
technology in the back black

2182
01:17:02,390 --> 01:17:00,320
and if we are headed for a confrontation

2183
01:17:04,630 --> 01:17:02,400
in the taiwan strait with china

2184
01:17:06,149 --> 01:17:04,640
i bloody want the americans to have that

2185
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:06,159
technology

2186
01:17:09,189 --> 01:17:07,840
living daylights out of anyone that

2187
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:09,199
takes them on

2188
01:17:12,950 --> 01:17:11,360
because my countrymen i've got friends

2189
01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:12,960
that fly fighter aircraft with the

2190
01:17:16,550 --> 01:17:14,560
australian air force i don't want them

2191
01:17:17,990 --> 01:17:16,560
to build in this

2192
01:17:19,830 --> 01:17:18,000
you know i've got mates that have fought

2193
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:19,840
for the special forces in iraq and

2194
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:21,120
afghanistan

2195
01:17:25,110 --> 01:17:23,040
with your soldiers and delta and the

2196
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:25,120
seal teams and i don't want them

2197
01:17:29,270 --> 01:17:27,679
any more than you know is absolutely

2198
01:17:30,790 --> 01:17:29,280
necessary in order to secure our

2199
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:30,800
national interest

2200
01:17:34,390 --> 01:17:32,640
so yeah i mean i i accept as a

2201
01:17:35,590 --> 01:17:34,400
journalist but occasionally things have

2202
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:35,600
to be kept secret

2203
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:37,199
and i've stumbled across things like

2204
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:38,880
that in my time as a journalist and i've

2205
01:17:43,590 --> 01:17:40,480
kept quiet about them

2206
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:43,600
but in this case i see no evidence that

2207
01:17:48,550 --> 01:17:44,880
this deserves to

2208
01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:48,560
be kept secret you know uh

2209
01:17:52,229 --> 01:17:50,400
if national security journalists are

2210
01:17:54,149 --> 01:17:52,239
being told that none of the people that

2211
01:17:55,189 --> 01:17:54,159
i've spoken to have told me that i

2212
01:17:56,950 --> 01:17:55,199
understand

2213
01:17:58,470 --> 01:17:56,960
there's a good reason as to why this is

2214
01:18:01,110 --> 01:17:58,480
being kept secret

2215
01:18:01,990 --> 01:18:01,120
i don't think the reason's a good one i

2216
01:18:04,070 --> 01:18:02,000
just think it's

2217
01:18:05,350 --> 01:18:04,080
simple embarrassment right and i think

2218
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:05,360
there's a bunch of people

2219
01:18:10,310 --> 01:18:08,080
at high levels in the pentagon and more

2220
01:18:12,070 --> 01:18:10,320
likely i suspect in private aerospace

2221
01:18:14,950 --> 01:18:12,080
who are guiding this secret

2222
01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:14,960
who realize they've probably broken laws

2223
01:18:20,550 --> 01:18:16,640
i think there's been a very

2224
01:18:23,750 --> 01:18:20,560
active attempt to mislead the public

2225
01:18:24,950 --> 01:18:23,760
to lie to the public to buy to your

2226
01:18:27,189 --> 01:18:24,960
congress

2227
01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:27,199
and i think on occasion crimes have been

2228
01:18:31,750 --> 01:18:29,840
committed to conceal the secret

2229
01:18:34,149 --> 01:18:31,760
and i think a lot of people are very

2230
01:18:36,070 --> 01:18:34,159
nervous about the consequences of what

2231
01:18:37,910 --> 01:18:36,080
happens if this comes up they're trying

2232
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:37,920
to control the narrative

2233
01:18:41,669 --> 01:18:39,760
one of the things i suspect is going on

2234
01:18:44,950 --> 01:18:41,679
is they're trying to present it

2235
01:18:47,110 --> 01:18:44,960
as if it all started in 2004

2236
01:18:49,189 --> 01:18:47,120
that way they can avoid any discussions

2237
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:49,199
about embarrassing things like recovered

2238
01:18:53,590 --> 01:18:51,600
craft and recovered technology

2239
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:53,600
because i think that they have recovered

2240
01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:55,199
technology i don't think there's too

2241
01:18:58,709 --> 01:18:57,280
much data in my mind about that

2242
01:19:01,590 --> 01:18:58,719
but i don't think they want to admit

2243
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:01,600
that so it's easier for them to say

2244
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:04,560
hey you know what people like dave

2245
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:05,840
fraver are right we

2246
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:07,520
we have discovered these anomalous

2247
01:19:11,110 --> 01:19:09,520
objects are real you know i know we

2248
01:19:12,550 --> 01:19:11,120
always thought they were nonsense but it

2249
01:19:14,550 --> 01:19:12,560
turns out they are real

2250
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:14,560
and golly we're going to investigate

2251
01:19:16,870 --> 01:19:16,159
them and we're going to humor the public

2252
01:19:18,790 --> 01:19:16,880
by

2253
01:19:20,550 --> 01:19:18,800
setting up a uap task force which is

2254
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:20,560
essentially window dressing

2255
01:19:25,030 --> 01:19:23,360
and meanwhile very active investigations

2256
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:25,040
that have been going on for years behind

2257
01:19:32,790 --> 01:19:31,430
along those lines why would they keep it

2258
01:19:34,390 --> 01:19:32,800
secret it's funny because you know

2259
01:19:36,149 --> 01:19:34,400
there's so many possibilities one of the

2260
01:19:37,669 --> 01:19:36,159
things george knapp spoke about

2261
01:19:39,830 --> 01:19:37,679
a lot of people it's i think it's from

2262
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:39,840
2007 2008 he said

2263
01:19:43,990 --> 01:19:42,239
he spoke to somebody who was in congress

2264
01:19:45,669 --> 01:19:44,000
either working for congress or in

2265
01:19:47,830 --> 01:19:45,679
congress i think they were in congress

2266
01:19:49,510 --> 01:19:47,840
and that person said the reason it's

2267
01:19:50,790 --> 01:19:49,520
kept secret is because

2268
01:19:52,550 --> 01:19:50,800
a lot of people are going to go to

2269
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:52,560
prison for stealing money

2270
01:19:56,470 --> 01:19:54,800
you know doing things that were illegal

2271
01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:56,480
budget wise and it wasn't because the

2272
01:19:59,510 --> 01:19:57,360
secret was just

2273
01:20:01,110 --> 01:19:59,520
horrendous for people to handle it's all

2274
01:20:01,750 --> 01:20:01,120
about stuff like that that's what that

2275
01:20:02,630 --> 01:20:01,760
person

2276
01:20:04,310 --> 01:20:02,640
but it's you know it's really

2277
01:20:05,910 --> 01:20:04,320
interesting joe because i one of the

2278
01:20:08,310 --> 01:20:05,920
first questions i asked both louis

2279
01:20:10,870 --> 01:20:08,320
lozando and chris mellon

2280
01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:10,880
was i i presented them with the fact

2281
01:20:13,669 --> 01:20:11,760
that

2282
01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:13,679
there's clearly a cover-up going on and

2283
01:20:17,590 --> 01:20:15,280
and um

2284
01:20:19,270 --> 01:20:17,600
i said let's hypothetically assume that

2285
01:20:22,390 --> 01:20:19,280
this has been kept secret

2286
01:20:25,669 --> 01:20:22,400
illegally and they said why illegally

2287
01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:25,679
what's illegal about lying to congress

2288
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:28,239
governments lie all the time and and the

2289
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:29,600
reality is

2290
01:20:33,350 --> 01:20:31,440
lying's not illegal it's not illegal to

2291
01:20:35,110 --> 01:20:33,360
mislead a congressman

2292
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:35,120
there's no law that says i mean it's

2293
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:36,960
possibly a contempt of the congress

2294
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:38,480
if the congress has asked a specific

2295
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:40,880
question but how many times has your

2296
01:20:44,790 --> 01:20:42,960
your congress or our parliament

2297
01:20:47,110 --> 01:20:44,800
prosecuted somebody for lying to the

2298
01:20:49,510 --> 01:20:47,120
parliament or lying to the congress

2299
01:20:51,430 --> 01:20:49,520
i mean the reality is that yeah i mean

2300
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:51,440
there's behavior like the kind of a

2301
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:52,560
fosse

2302
01:20:55,590 --> 01:20:54,480
officer therefore special investigations

2303
01:20:58,790 --> 01:20:55,600
misbehavior where they've

2304
01:21:01,030 --> 01:20:58,800
actively you know perpetrated

2305
01:21:02,629 --> 01:21:01,040
i think intelligence operations arguably

2306
01:21:05,990 --> 01:21:02,639
illegally against people like

2307
01:21:07,189 --> 01:21:06,000
um benowitz paul benowitz um i don't

2308
01:21:09,270 --> 01:21:07,199
think there's any doubt that

2309
01:21:10,390 --> 01:21:09,280
intelligence services have been deployed

2310
01:21:12,830 --> 01:21:10,400
illegally on

2311
01:21:13,750 --> 01:21:12,840
american soil domestic operations of the

2312
01:21:15,350 --> 01:21:13,760
cia and

2313
01:21:16,870 --> 01:21:15,360
the national security agency against

2314
01:21:18,790 --> 01:21:16,880
american citizens

2315
01:21:20,229 --> 01:21:18,800
in order to protect a secret i suspect

2316
01:21:22,229 --> 01:21:20,239
that will come up

2317
01:21:23,270 --> 01:21:22,239
but really in the long run a lot of

2318
01:21:25,430 --> 01:21:23,280
what's been done

2319
01:21:27,030 --> 01:21:25,440
has been done in the national interest

2320
01:21:27,669 --> 01:21:27,040
if you can do things under an executive

2321
01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:27,679
order

2322
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:29,360
under your constitution the president

2323
01:21:33,990 --> 01:21:30,960
can authorize

2324
01:21:38,070 --> 01:21:36,310
for people who have not heard the story

2325
01:21:40,310 --> 01:21:38,080
i really make sure we got to get to

2326
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:40,320
the story of the man who called you in

2327
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:41,520
the park

2328
01:21:44,629 --> 01:21:44,159
and and the man who said ask the

2329
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:44,639
question

2330
01:21:52,070 --> 01:21:48,480
yeah if you could

2331
01:21:53,350 --> 01:21:52,080
go ahead sorry i um i sat down at the

2332
01:21:54,629 --> 01:21:53,360
very beginning of all of this and i

2333
01:21:57,110 --> 01:21:54,639
asked myself the question

2334
01:21:57,669 --> 01:21:57,120
which any journalist like me always asks

2335
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:57,679
which is

2336
01:22:02,070 --> 01:22:00,480
how do you begin to investigate

2337
01:22:04,790 --> 01:22:02,080
something which is true

2338
01:22:06,229 --> 01:22:04,800
is being kept incredibly secret by the

2339
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:06,239
us government because

2340
01:22:10,950 --> 01:22:09,040
my reading had convinced me by viewing

2341
01:22:12,149 --> 01:22:10,960
and reading and just talking to various

2342
01:22:13,990 --> 01:22:12,159
people that convinced me that there

2343
01:22:15,910 --> 01:22:14,000
really is something to this but i

2344
01:22:17,510 --> 01:22:15,920
i wanted to take it further i wanted to

2345
01:22:19,990 --> 01:22:17,520
advance it and so i

2346
01:22:22,310 --> 01:22:20,000
i sat down and i went through defense

2347
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:22,320
reports

2348
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:25,760
books inquiries and i thought about all

2349
01:22:29,669 --> 01:22:26,880
of the people who

2350
01:22:31,669 --> 01:22:29,679
could potentially help me if they were

2351
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:31,679
engaged with in a way that protected

2352
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:33,280
their anonymity

2353
01:22:38,070 --> 01:22:35,280
and so i thought about the fact that i

2354
01:22:40,790 --> 01:22:38,080
know about how easy it is to

2355
01:22:41,110 --> 01:22:40,800
track metadata of digital communications

2356
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:41,120
i mean

2357
01:22:45,830 --> 01:22:43,920
essentially you know these mobile phones

2358
01:22:47,669 --> 01:22:45,840
there's nothing you can do with mobile

2359
01:22:49,270 --> 01:22:47,679
phones they're totally insecure

2360
01:22:51,590 --> 01:22:49,280
and and if anybody thinks they can

2361
01:22:52,629 --> 01:22:51,600
communicate as a journalist on a mobile

2362
01:22:54,629 --> 01:22:52,639
phone or by an

2363
01:22:56,229 --> 01:22:54,639
email or by any kind of comms on a

2364
01:22:57,830 --> 01:22:56,239
mobile you're screwed

2365
01:23:00,550 --> 01:22:57,840
you're immediately compromising your

2366
01:23:02,950 --> 01:23:00,560
source so i um

2367
01:23:04,709 --> 01:23:02,960
i wrote letters i sat down and i figured

2368
01:23:06,149 --> 01:23:04,719
out the home addresses of people all

2369
01:23:07,830 --> 01:23:06,159
over north america and

2370
01:23:09,590 --> 01:23:07,840
in different parts of the world who i

2371
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:09,600
suspected might have known something

2372
01:23:15,430 --> 01:23:11,120
about this issue

2373
01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:17,510
sorry sorry i'm talking to the dog go

2374
01:23:22,390 --> 01:23:19,440
ahead okay sorry

2375
01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:22,400
um and so i um i basically wrote letters

2376
01:23:26,709 --> 01:23:22,960
to people

2377
01:23:27,189 --> 01:23:26,719
and i uh i invited them to correspond

2378
01:23:29,510 --> 01:23:27,199
with me

2379
01:23:31,430 --> 01:23:29,520
on telegram which is an encrypted app or

2380
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:31,440
signal another encrypted app or

2381
01:23:38,550 --> 01:23:35,600
on pgp encryption or proton mail

2382
01:23:40,229 --> 01:23:38,560
or just to give me a letter back and

2383
01:23:43,270 --> 01:23:40,239
after a few months people did

2384
01:23:44,870 --> 01:23:43,280
they started responding and some of

2385
01:23:46,470 --> 01:23:44,880
those people

2386
01:23:48,070 --> 01:23:46,480
one of them in particular who was one of

2387
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:48,080
the first to call me

2388
01:23:54,950 --> 01:23:52,080
he called me on my signal app

2389
01:23:56,470 --> 01:23:54,960
and i could hear he was clearly in a

2390
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:56,480
park or something because i could hear

2391
01:24:01,270 --> 01:23:58,880
birds and i could hear kids playing

2392
01:24:01,990 --> 01:24:01,280
and it was his lunch hour and he come

2393
01:24:04,870 --> 01:24:02,000
out from

2394
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:04,880
the aerospace contractor complex where

2395
01:24:08,709 --> 01:24:05,760
he was working

2396
01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:08,719
where he told me he worked on what he

2397
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:09,840
called

2398
01:24:17,430 --> 01:24:13,840
the program and uh he

2399
01:24:20,070 --> 01:24:17,440
purported to be working on recovered

2400
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:20,080
technology in a very compartmentalized

2401
01:24:26,070 --> 01:24:22,320
area of that

2402
01:24:28,950 --> 01:24:26,080
of that classified operation

2403
01:24:29,990 --> 01:24:28,960
and he was absolutely terrified to make

2404
01:24:33,189 --> 01:24:30,000
sure that

2405
01:24:35,910 --> 01:24:33,199
whilst i knew that this existed that he

2406
01:24:37,430 --> 01:24:35,920
not be compromised

2407
01:24:39,270 --> 01:24:37,440
but he thought there was a public

2408
01:24:40,709 --> 01:24:39,280
interest in the public knowing about

2409
01:24:44,149 --> 01:24:40,719
this

2410
01:24:47,830 --> 01:24:44,159
and then one of the people who called me

2411
01:24:51,189 --> 01:24:47,840
um to my amazement

2412
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:51,199
was a guy called nat kobits the former

2413
01:24:54,550 --> 01:24:51,920
director

2414
01:24:56,229 --> 01:24:54,560
of science and technology development

2415
01:24:58,390 --> 01:24:56,239
for the us navy

2416
01:25:00,550 --> 01:24:58,400
you know one of the most senior geeks or

2417
01:25:01,590 --> 01:25:00,560
research officials in the us navy at the

2418
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:01,600
time

2419
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,840
he'd retired he'd set up his own private

2420
01:25:09,189 --> 01:25:05,520
business and then sadly he'd got

2421
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:09,199
very sick he got cancer and uh

2422
01:25:12,550 --> 01:25:11,199
let me be very clear that was a patriot

2423
01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:12,560
he absolutely

2424
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:14,639
loved america and he was very very proud

2425
01:25:19,110 --> 01:25:16,400
of what he'd done

2426
01:25:21,430 --> 01:25:19,120
as an american citizen serviceman

2427
01:25:23,830 --> 01:25:21,440
working with military to develop

2428
01:25:25,030 --> 01:25:23,840
cutting edge navy technology he'd been

2429
01:25:27,350 --> 01:25:25,040
involved in

2430
01:25:28,870 --> 01:25:27,360
early drone technology he'd been

2431
01:25:31,750 --> 01:25:28,880
involved in the development of the

2432
01:25:35,189 --> 01:25:31,760
sidewinder missile with the us air force

2433
01:25:37,830 --> 01:25:35,199
and the u.s navy and as he

2434
01:25:38,470 --> 01:25:37,840
eventually admitted to me one day he

2435
01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:38,480
said to me

2436
01:25:42,790 --> 01:25:40,800
ross asked me the question because i

2437
01:25:44,229 --> 01:25:42,800
told him i was interested in ufos

2438
01:25:47,430 --> 01:25:44,239
what the us government knew about the

2439
01:25:49,350 --> 01:25:47,440
phenomenon so i asked him the question

2440
01:25:51,510 --> 01:25:49,360
and one of the things that he explained

2441
01:25:52,709 --> 01:25:51,520
to me was that a lot of these programs

2442
01:25:54,149 --> 01:25:52,719
that he was aware of

2443
01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:54,159
he wouldn't talk about it because he'd

2444
01:25:58,229 --> 01:25:56,159
been read into them

2445
01:26:00,390 --> 01:25:58,239
he'd been security briefed into them and

2446
01:26:02,430 --> 01:26:00,400
he'd signed the security oath

2447
01:26:03,910 --> 01:26:02,440
pertaining to that particular

2448
01:26:06,149 --> 01:26:03,920
compartmentalized

2449
01:26:07,510 --> 01:26:06,159
security information and he made it very

2450
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:07,520
clear to me that he wasn't going to

2451
01:26:09,990 --> 01:26:08,080
compromise

2452
01:26:13,510 --> 01:26:10,000
that information and i wasn't going to

2453
01:26:18,149 --> 01:26:16,070
but what was interesting was we'd kind

2454
01:26:18,709 --> 01:26:18,159
of agreed about parameters for what he

2455
01:26:23,590 --> 01:26:18,719
was

2456
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:23,600
to him that

2457
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:26,880
were you ever read into

2458
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:30,960
any program which involved the retrieval

2459
01:26:35,430 --> 01:26:32,159
of

2460
01:26:37,030 --> 01:26:35,440
a ufo uh you know flying saucer an alien

2461
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:37,040
craft

2462
01:26:41,669 --> 01:26:40,239
and there was this kind of pause

2463
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:41,679
and i thought he wasn't going to answer

2464
01:26:45,990 --> 01:26:43,520
the question

2465
01:26:46,550 --> 01:26:46,000
and i was about to ask a new question

2466
01:26:49,669 --> 01:26:46,560
when

2467
01:26:53,510 --> 01:26:49,679
he just went yes and i was never read

2468
01:26:56,870 --> 01:26:55,750
and i was just like shocked i was really

2469
01:26:57,590 --> 01:26:56,880
shocked you know i've just got the

2470
01:27:02,070 --> 01:26:57,600
director

2471
01:27:04,550 --> 01:27:02,080
technology development the chief geek

2472
01:27:07,270 --> 01:27:04,560
admitted to me that he was read into a

2473
01:27:10,550 --> 01:27:07,280
crash retrieval program

2474
01:27:14,149 --> 01:27:12,229
let's be clear here now you're talking

2475
01:27:17,669 --> 01:27:14,159
about craft

2476
01:27:20,070 --> 01:27:17,679
and he said multiple craft

2477
01:27:22,149 --> 01:27:20,080
and that's pretty much all he was

2478
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:22,159
prepared to reveal he told me he'd never

2479
01:27:25,910 --> 01:27:23,440
seen

2480
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:25,920
these craft but he told me that he was

2481
01:27:29,910 --> 01:27:26,800
read into

2482
01:27:31,910 --> 01:27:29,920
a craft retrieval program that he

2483
01:27:33,910 --> 01:27:31,920
is essentially the former head of r d of

2484
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:33,920
the u.s navy had been read into

2485
01:27:37,510 --> 01:27:36,480
while he was on the job and one of the

2486
01:27:40,550 --> 01:27:37,520
things i asked him

2487
01:27:42,470 --> 01:27:40,560
was is there an active

2488
01:27:44,390 --> 01:27:42,480
re-engineering program where they'd

2489
01:27:45,669 --> 01:27:44,400
actually cracked this technology

2490
01:27:47,669 --> 01:27:45,679
because he acknowledged that there'd

2491
01:27:48,629 --> 01:27:47,679
been a back engineering effort that had

2492
01:27:51,510 --> 01:27:48,639
been going on for

2493
01:27:53,910 --> 01:27:51,520
many many years he'd been briefed about

2494
01:27:55,669 --> 01:27:53,920
it he wouldn't exactly say when but he

2495
01:27:58,870 --> 01:27:55,679
briefed about it during his time and

2496
01:28:01,350 --> 01:27:58,880
that was many many years earlier

2497
01:28:03,189 --> 01:28:01,360
and he went away and asked a number of

2498
01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:03,199
his colleagues whether they were aware

2499
01:28:07,110 --> 01:28:04,880
of this technology had been

2500
01:28:08,709 --> 01:28:07,120
cracked in the black and he came back to

2501
01:28:10,310 --> 01:28:08,719
me and he said ross i don't think we've

2502
01:28:11,990 --> 01:28:10,320
cracked any politics

2503
01:28:13,590 --> 01:28:12,000
he says i think i would know about it i

2504
01:28:13,990 --> 01:28:13,600
would have had to have been told about

2505
01:28:21,669 --> 01:28:14,000
it

2506
01:28:25,990 --> 01:28:21,679
know

2507
01:28:28,470 --> 01:28:26,000
of your good guys and the thing i loved

2508
01:28:30,790 --> 01:28:28,480
about him he was a brooklyn

2509
01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:30,800
jew so he's a wisecracking guy with a

2510
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:31,840
beautiful accent

2511
01:28:35,990 --> 01:28:34,800
and he was just so proud of the things

2512
01:28:39,669 --> 01:28:36,000
that he'd done

2513
01:28:42,229 --> 01:28:39,679
with your military in 30 or 40 years

2514
01:28:43,590 --> 01:28:42,239
working at the cutting edge of cold war

2515
01:28:46,149 --> 01:28:43,600
research

2516
01:28:47,830 --> 01:28:46,159
and he couldn't see as the way he had

2517
01:28:50,229 --> 01:28:47,840
explained it to me he couldn't see

2518
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:50,239
any good reason why this could continue

2519
01:28:56,390 --> 01:28:52,320
to be secret

2520
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:56,400
the fact that they'd recovered craft and

2521
01:28:59,350 --> 01:28:57,920
i mean essentially the best he would

2522
01:29:01,189 --> 01:28:59,360
acknowledge to me was that essentially

2523
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:01,199
it was impossible to

2524
01:29:05,750 --> 01:29:03,360
you know what this was was so advanced

2525
01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:05,760
that their efforts to replicate it had

2526
01:29:10,310 --> 01:29:07,440
been unsuccessful

2527
01:29:11,110 --> 01:29:10,320
which kind of matched what eric's said

2528
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:11,120
if you know

2529
01:29:15,270 --> 01:29:12,719
and that that's what was significant to

2530
01:29:16,229 --> 01:29:15,280
me but he seems to be supporting what dr

2531
01:29:18,390 --> 01:29:16,239
eric davis

2532
01:29:20,390 --> 01:29:18,400
said in the number of entities but it

2533
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:20,400
was essentially shut down

2534
01:29:23,830 --> 01:29:22,000
at the end of the cold war which i

2535
01:29:25,510 --> 01:29:23,840
frankly don't believe i'm sure any

2536
01:29:26,950 --> 01:29:25,520
re-energy re-engineering effort is

2537
01:29:30,550 --> 01:29:26,960
continuing

2538
01:29:33,189 --> 01:29:30,560
but um nat

2539
01:29:35,030 --> 01:29:33,199
was dying and indeed he died in the

2540
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:35,040
course of our um

2541
01:29:38,629 --> 01:29:37,840
conversations and uh you know a great

2542
01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:38,639
american

2543
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:40,639
patriot died with him he was a very

2544
01:29:47,110 --> 01:29:43,760
decent man he became quite a good friend

2545
01:29:50,550 --> 01:29:47,120
but he put me on to a

2546
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:50,560
number of people who will remain and

2547
01:29:54,629 --> 01:29:52,320
continue to remain anonymous and who i

2548
01:29:59,189 --> 01:29:54,639
will protect to the end of my days

2549
01:30:02,629 --> 01:29:59,199
who engaged with me at nat's instigation

2550
01:30:03,750 --> 01:30:02,639
and one of them had been invited onto

2551
01:30:06,229 --> 01:30:03,760
the program

2552
01:30:08,310 --> 01:30:06,239
and had declined but he described the

2553
01:30:11,030 --> 01:30:08,320
process by which people were invited

2554
01:30:13,750 --> 01:30:11,040
onto the program

2555
01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:13,760
and others had been brought into the

2556
01:30:18,070 --> 01:30:15,440
program and were operating

2557
01:30:19,590 --> 01:30:18,080
in compartmentalized areas of the

2558
01:30:21,669 --> 01:30:19,600
program

2559
01:30:23,030 --> 01:30:21,679
but i was left in no doubt whatsoever

2560
01:30:25,189 --> 01:30:23,040
that there was

2561
01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:25,199
a program that the united states

2562
01:30:30,310 --> 01:30:27,760
government was and is actively involved

2563
01:30:32,629 --> 01:30:30,320
in an effort to

2564
01:30:35,189 --> 01:30:32,639
re-engineer or back engineer what it

2565
01:30:37,510 --> 01:30:35,199
thinks is alien technology

2566
01:30:39,030 --> 01:30:37,520
and so the admissions that have been

2567
01:30:42,629 --> 01:30:39,040
made by

2568
01:30:45,270 --> 01:30:42,639
eric davis louis zondo chris mullen

2569
01:30:48,310 --> 01:30:45,280
and others privately to me take on

2570
01:30:50,149 --> 01:30:48,320
special importance when i hear

2571
01:30:52,070 --> 01:30:50,159
what they're saying and compare it to

2572
01:30:55,430 --> 01:30:52,080
what i was told by a man

2573
01:30:57,270 --> 01:30:55,440
who had absolutely no reason to lie

2574
01:30:59,590 --> 01:30:57,280
you know this poor fellow was dying from

2575
01:31:01,830 --> 01:30:59,600
a horrible cancer

2576
01:31:04,629 --> 01:31:01,840
and i think is one of the last gestures

2577
01:31:06,629 --> 01:31:04,639
that he wanted to make before he passed

2578
01:31:08,229 --> 01:31:06,639
he wanted to be truthful with the public

2579
01:31:10,070 --> 01:31:08,239
about something that he could see no

2580
01:31:11,270 --> 01:31:10,080
good reason to be kept confidential for

2581
01:31:12,550 --> 01:31:11,280
much longer

2582
01:31:14,629 --> 01:31:12,560
and i think that's where we're at at the

2583
01:31:16,709 --> 01:31:14,639
moment i i always

2584
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:16,719
try and think the best of bureaucracies

2585
01:31:20,229 --> 01:31:18,719
and we have a saying in my line of work

2586
01:31:23,270 --> 01:31:20,239
which is always assume

2587
01:31:25,030 --> 01:31:23,280
a screw-up for a conspiracy

2588
01:31:27,030 --> 01:31:25,040
and so i think if there has been a

2589
01:31:30,070 --> 01:31:27,040
conspiracy to conceal

2590
01:31:31,270 --> 01:31:30,080
what's going on i think it's probably an

2591
01:31:34,310 --> 01:31:31,280
accumulation

2592
01:31:36,070 --> 01:31:34,320
of failures by different bureaucrats to

2593
01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:36,080
make a decision about something that was

2594
01:31:39,669 --> 01:31:38,159
difficult to make a decision about

2595
01:31:41,830 --> 01:31:39,679
it's better just to put it in the too

2596
01:31:43,430 --> 01:31:41,840
hard basket and to continue to ignore it

2597
01:31:45,350 --> 01:31:43,440
for another 10 years

2598
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:45,360
than it is to come to the public and sit

2599
01:31:49,669 --> 01:31:46,960
down in the congress and say

2600
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:49,679
to richard damatos or the the

2601
01:31:53,110 --> 01:31:50,800
christopher mellons

2602
01:31:55,510 --> 01:31:53,120
hey guys look we just want you to know

2603
01:31:57,189 --> 01:31:55,520
we've been lying to you for the last 76

2604
01:32:01,110 --> 01:31:57,199
years we did recover

2605
01:32:03,510 --> 01:32:01,120
like salsa at roswell in 1947 at del rio

2606
01:32:05,110 --> 01:32:03,520
and at aztec and look we've been trying

2607
01:32:07,590 --> 01:32:05,120
to rebuild the bloody things for the

2608
01:32:09,189 --> 01:32:07,600
last 76 years but it's buggering us and

2609
01:32:11,189 --> 01:32:09,199
we don't know how to do it but

2610
01:32:12,870 --> 01:32:11,199
look we think you should know we do have

2611
01:32:16,790 --> 01:32:12,880
this technology

2612
01:32:18,629 --> 01:32:16,800
i mean i i i have a hunch

2613
01:32:21,189 --> 01:32:18,639
that at some stage that might dribble

2614
01:32:23,030 --> 01:32:21,199
out uh and i think there's also

2615
01:32:24,870 --> 01:32:23,040
significance for what it's worth in the

2616
01:32:27,750 --> 01:32:24,880
doctor's salvatory pay

2617
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:27,760
patents that the u.s navy has filed i

2618
01:32:31,510 --> 01:32:29,760
don't necessarily believe that the u.s

2619
01:32:33,590 --> 01:32:31,520
navy has actually achieved what it's

2620
01:32:34,550 --> 01:32:33,600
purported to achieve to the u.s patent

2621
01:32:37,110 --> 01:32:34,560
office

2622
01:32:38,950 --> 01:32:37,120
but i do think that it's interesting

2623
01:32:42,470 --> 01:32:38,960
that an effort has been made

2624
01:32:44,310 --> 01:32:42,480
at a point when it's known

2625
01:32:46,709 --> 01:32:44,320
that there's potentially going to be

2626
01:32:48,629 --> 01:32:46,719
disclosure in the congress

2627
01:32:50,709 --> 01:32:48,639
that the u.s navy has gone to the effort

2628
01:32:52,950 --> 01:32:50,719
of patenting this technology through

2629
01:32:54,470 --> 01:32:52,960
one of its doctors one of its senior

2630
01:32:57,590 --> 01:32:54,480
researchers

2631
01:32:58,709 --> 01:32:57,600
so i do think that we're slowly drifting

2632
01:33:01,189 --> 01:32:58,719
towards a point

2633
01:33:03,110 --> 01:33:01,199
where the public may learn something

2634
01:33:04,870 --> 01:33:03,120
very very interesting and i suspect that

2635
01:33:07,430 --> 01:33:04,880
might very well be that we learn

2636
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:07,440
that we are not alone that there is an

2637
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:08,880
advanced intelligence that's been

2638
01:33:12,310 --> 01:33:10,480
operating intelligence

2639
01:33:14,470 --> 01:33:12,320
and technology in our atmosphere that's

2640
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:14,480
far more advanced than ours

2641
01:33:18,629 --> 01:33:16,800
but i'm not persuaded yet that we have

2642
01:33:22,229 --> 01:33:18,639
this technology

2643
01:33:23,830 --> 01:33:22,239
back engineered and developed to the

2644
01:33:26,870 --> 01:33:23,840
point where we can deploy it

2645
01:33:29,110 --> 01:33:26,880
and use it in our own militaries

2646
01:33:30,390 --> 01:33:29,120
back to the gentleman who called you how

2647
01:33:31,990 --> 01:33:30,400
long did you speak with him were you

2648
01:33:33,990 --> 01:33:32,000
and were you able to verify anything

2649
01:33:36,790 --> 01:33:34,000
that he said i mean did he tell you

2650
01:33:38,550 --> 01:33:36,800
what i worked i mean uh i i know where

2651
01:33:41,990 --> 01:33:38,560
he worked but i'm not going to reveal it

2652
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:42,000
um i um i've since

2653
01:33:47,110 --> 01:33:45,199
verified his position in

2654
01:33:49,110 --> 01:33:47,120
the place where he works and the role

2655
01:33:50,790 --> 01:33:49,120
that he plays is not what he's actually

2656
01:33:54,310 --> 01:33:50,800
told me he does

2657
01:33:56,310 --> 01:33:54,320
and this is one of the things as the guy

2658
01:33:57,669 --> 01:33:56,320
who told me that he was invited into the

2659
01:34:00,870 --> 01:33:57,679
program told me

2660
01:34:04,629 --> 01:34:00,880
the way it works is he was invited

2661
01:34:07,510 --> 01:34:04,639
to the campus of the aerospace company

2662
01:34:07,990 --> 01:34:07,520
he's met at the door taken out into the

2663
01:34:10,870 --> 01:34:08,000
garden

2664
01:34:12,709 --> 01:34:10,880
they sit under a tree and he's basically

2665
01:34:14,790 --> 01:34:12,719
told that

2666
01:34:16,390 --> 01:34:14,800
the united states government is working

2667
01:34:19,270 --> 01:34:16,400
in the black on recovered

2668
01:34:20,070 --> 01:34:19,280
alien technology if he's invited into

2669
01:34:22,310 --> 01:34:20,080
the program

2670
01:34:23,510 --> 01:34:22,320
you take part he'll have an office in

2671
01:34:24,629 --> 01:34:23,520
this building here he'll have a

2672
01:34:26,709 --> 01:34:24,639
secretary

2673
01:34:28,070 --> 01:34:26,719
he'll take calls for him he'll put the

2674
01:34:29,669 --> 01:34:28,080
calls through to him but he won't be

2675
01:34:31,110 --> 01:34:29,679
working here he'll be working somewhere

2676
01:34:35,030 --> 01:34:31,120
else

2677
01:34:38,149 --> 01:34:35,040
uh that's the way it works and it's all

2678
01:34:41,350 --> 01:34:38,159
kept very much inside private aerospace

2679
01:34:42,070 --> 01:34:41,360
um uh they're not subject to the foi

2680
01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:42,080
laws

2681
01:34:45,990 --> 01:34:44,080
uh they're hidden behind multiple

2682
01:34:47,430 --> 01:34:46,000
special access programs that are waived

2683
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:47,440
and unacknowledged

2684
01:34:51,510 --> 01:34:49,360
most congressmen most senators had

2685
01:34:54,470 --> 01:34:51,520
absolutely no idea of it

2686
01:34:56,629 --> 01:34:54,480
that's the way it was described to me um

2687
01:34:58,709 --> 01:34:56,639
yes i did verify what those people told

2688
01:35:00,149 --> 01:34:58,719
me because i believe what nick hobitz

2689
01:35:01,990 --> 01:35:00,159
told me was a verification

2690
01:35:03,750 --> 01:35:02,000
and i've spoken since to other people

2691
01:35:04,950 --> 01:35:03,760
who report who've been involved in the

2692
01:35:06,950 --> 01:35:04,960
program

2693
01:35:08,629 --> 01:35:06,960
who also verified to me their

2694
01:35:10,790 --> 01:35:08,639
involvement in different aspects

2695
01:35:12,310 --> 01:35:10,800
very heavily compartmentalized areas of

2696
01:35:13,510 --> 01:35:12,320
the program where for example they're

2697
01:35:16,149 --> 01:35:13,520
working on

2698
01:35:16,629 --> 01:35:16,159
for example a piece of technology that

2699
01:35:19,750 --> 01:35:16,639
they

2700
01:35:22,550 --> 01:35:19,760
surmise probably came from

2701
01:35:24,470 --> 01:35:22,560
something that is not human i mean

2702
01:35:26,950 --> 01:35:24,480
imagine being given a mobile phone in

2703
01:35:30,229 --> 01:35:26,960
the 15th century and asked to

2704
01:35:32,390 --> 01:35:30,239
replicate that mobile phone how would

2705
01:35:34,390 --> 01:35:32,400
you even begin to do that

2706
01:35:36,870 --> 01:35:34,400
you know the the technology of silicon

2707
01:35:40,310 --> 01:35:36,880
chips the microscopic

2708
01:35:42,229 --> 01:35:40,320
uh circuitry of an integrated circuit

2709
01:35:44,950 --> 01:35:42,239
how would anybody in elizabeth england

2710
01:35:47,350 --> 01:35:44,960
even be able to understand that

2711
01:35:49,030 --> 01:35:47,360
and i think that's if if this is the

2712
01:35:50,229 --> 01:35:49,040
case if we have recovered this

2713
01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:50,239
technology

2714
01:35:55,990 --> 01:35:55,360
i sincerely hope that there have been

2715
01:35:58,310 --> 01:35:56,000
breakthroughs

2716
01:35:59,430 --> 01:35:58,320
in the black that i i'm led to the

2717
01:36:02,149 --> 01:35:59,440
belief

2718
01:36:03,830 --> 01:36:02,159
as eric davis has inferred that it

2719
01:36:05,109 --> 01:36:03,840
hasn't happened yet

2720
01:36:06,550 --> 01:36:05,119
and maybe that's why there's a

2721
01:36:07,910 --> 01:36:06,560
difference about telling the public

2722
01:36:10,149 --> 01:36:07,920
about it because

2723
01:36:11,430 --> 01:36:10,159
you're losing a strategic advantage by

2724
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:11,440
being forced

2725
01:36:17,669 --> 01:36:14,560
to talk about it or maybe i mean

2726
01:36:20,790 --> 01:36:17,679
i'm fascinated by the work of dr lee

2727
01:36:22,830 --> 01:36:20,800
a chinese physicist who for a while was

2728
01:36:24,790 --> 01:36:22,840
operating out of huntsville in

2729
01:36:26,470 --> 01:36:24,800
alabama she's kind of dropped off the

2730
01:36:28,070 --> 01:36:26,480
radar she seems to be now working with

2731
01:36:30,390 --> 01:36:28,080
the chinese government

2732
01:36:31,669 --> 01:36:30,400
but for a while she was working with

2733
01:36:33,750 --> 01:36:31,679
your defence department

2734
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:33,760
in huntsville alabama working on

2735
01:36:39,510 --> 01:36:36,960
anti-gravity research and talking about

2736
01:36:41,510 --> 01:36:39,520
uh implied imminent advances in

2737
01:36:42,950 --> 01:36:41,520
anti-gravity propulsion technology that

2738
01:36:45,030 --> 01:36:42,960
were just around the pool but like

2739
01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:45,040
america was talking about in the

2740
01:36:49,030 --> 01:36:47,199
in the 50s and the 60s and that it all

2741
01:36:53,030 --> 01:36:49,040
also went black

2742
01:36:56,470 --> 01:36:53,040
um if i was america and i knew that

2743
01:36:58,709 --> 01:36:56,480
china was working in the black

2744
01:37:00,390 --> 01:36:58,719
in super secrecy rushing to try and

2745
01:37:02,070 --> 01:37:00,400
develop this technology well the first

2746
01:37:03,030 --> 01:37:02,080
thing i'd be trying to make sure of is

2747
01:37:05,109 --> 01:37:03,040
that

2748
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:05,119
if the chinese have this breakthrough

2749
01:37:09,030 --> 01:37:07,280
that we also have the right to use this

2750
01:37:11,990 --> 01:37:09,040
intellectual property ourselves

2751
01:37:13,590 --> 01:37:12,000
hence the salvatory pay patents you

2752
01:37:15,990 --> 01:37:13,600
don't want to have to pay the chinese

2753
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:16,000
the humiliation of paying one of your

2754
01:37:20,790 --> 01:37:17,280
foreign rivals

2755
01:37:22,629 --> 01:37:20,800
to use this technology would be too much

2756
01:37:23,910 --> 01:37:22,639
but i would also try and keep it secret

2757
01:37:27,030 --> 01:37:23,920
as long as possible

2758
01:37:27,990 --> 01:37:27,040
and maybe this is the arrogance of us in

2759
01:37:31,189 --> 01:37:28,000
the um

2760
01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:31,199
the world of uap research that we think

2761
01:37:35,109 --> 01:37:32,800
that governments ought to and

2762
01:37:36,950 --> 01:37:35,119
should properly reveal this when they

2763
01:37:39,189 --> 01:37:36,960
come to know about it

2764
01:37:39,990 --> 01:37:39,199
i'm asking the question maybe there is a

2765
01:37:43,510 --> 01:37:40,000
good reason

2766
01:37:46,550 --> 01:37:43,520
why it's being kept secret um i like to

2767
01:37:49,669 --> 01:37:46,560
think the best of these people you know

2768
01:37:51,669 --> 01:37:49,679
but if it is being kept secret why

2769
01:37:55,430 --> 01:37:51,679
let's assume admiral tom wilson for

2770
01:37:57,990 --> 01:37:55,440
example was being lied to

2771
01:37:58,470 --> 01:37:58,000
if it is the case that the j-2 the

2772
01:38:00,310 --> 01:37:58,480
person

2773
01:38:01,510 --> 01:38:00,320
briefing the joint chiefs of staff and

2774
01:38:04,229 --> 01:38:01,520
intelligence matters

2775
01:38:06,229 --> 01:38:04,239
is being lied to about a secret ufo

2776
01:38:09,430 --> 01:38:06,239
re-engineering program

2777
01:38:09,990 --> 01:38:09,440
why the hell would you do that you know

2778
01:38:13,189 --> 01:38:10,000
what's the

2779
01:38:15,350 --> 01:38:13,199
that secret

2780
01:38:17,270 --> 01:38:15,360
what's why the obsessive secrecy this is

2781
01:38:19,189 --> 01:38:17,280
what i don't understand

2782
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:19,199
but one of the things i am very very

2783
01:38:23,590 --> 01:38:22,000
sure of is that there is a cover-up

2784
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:23,600
there are individuals that have gone

2785
01:38:27,750 --> 01:38:25,360
around threatening people trying to shut

2786
01:38:29,830 --> 01:38:27,760
it down

2787
01:38:30,870 --> 01:38:29,840
there are lies that have been told to

2788
01:38:34,149 --> 01:38:30,880
protect this

2789
01:38:37,030 --> 01:38:34,159
uh something's going on

2790
01:38:37,270 --> 01:38:37,040
and i'm genuinely trying to understand

2791
01:38:39,590 --> 01:38:37,280
it

2792
01:38:41,030 --> 01:38:39,600
and i'm puzzled and the interesting

2793
01:38:43,030 --> 01:38:41,040
thing is that if i was

2794
01:38:46,870 --> 01:38:43,040
the person that's the gatekeeper of this

2795
01:38:48,390 --> 01:38:46,880
secret i would now be incredibly nervous

2796
01:38:50,229 --> 01:38:48,400
let's talk for a moment for example

2797
01:38:51,669 --> 01:38:50,239
about the admiral wilson document yes

2798
01:38:54,070 --> 01:38:51,679
that's one thing i want to get to before

2799
01:38:56,070 --> 01:38:54,080
we get before we end in 20 minutes

2800
01:38:57,109 --> 01:38:56,080
yeah sure i mean it will be a real

2801
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:57,119
document but i

2802
01:39:00,870 --> 01:38:58,960
i mean i think there's a lot of

2803
01:39:02,470 --> 01:39:00,880
questions that still need to be answered

2804
01:39:04,709 --> 01:39:02,480
about that document

2805
01:39:06,149 --> 01:39:04,719
i know for a fact that it came from the

2806
01:39:07,990 --> 01:39:06,159
estate of the late

2807
01:39:10,550 --> 01:39:08,000
edgar mitchell because i've spoken to

2808
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:10,560
the guy who literally has it sitting in

2809
01:39:14,310 --> 01:39:11,600
his archive

2810
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:14,320
and he got it directly from edgar

2811
01:39:19,030 --> 01:39:15,679
mitchell's home

2812
01:39:21,750 --> 01:39:19,040
with mitch harkins and his nephew who

2813
01:39:22,709 --> 01:39:21,760
saved the files from edgar's filing

2814
01:39:25,750 --> 01:39:22,719
cabinet

2815
01:39:25,990 --> 01:39:25,760
and that document eric davis you know

2816
01:39:30,310 --> 01:39:26,000
his

2817
01:39:32,390 --> 01:39:30,320
admiral tom wilson at the

2818
01:39:34,629 --> 01:39:32,400
defense intelligence organization in

2819
01:39:37,910 --> 01:39:34,639
2002 in las vegas

2820
01:39:40,629 --> 01:39:37,920
those alleged notes um

2821
01:39:42,149 --> 01:39:40,639
were in the archives of dr edgar

2822
01:39:45,669 --> 01:39:42,159
mitchell that he'd been sent

2823
01:39:48,310 --> 01:39:45,679
by hul put off from the national

2824
01:39:51,109 --> 01:39:48,320
institute of discovery science

2825
01:39:52,149 --> 01:39:51,119
when it was on the science advisory

2826
01:39:55,669 --> 01:39:52,159
board of

2827
01:39:57,830 --> 01:39:55,679
nibs and uh there's a huge body here

2828
01:39:58,709 --> 01:39:57,840
archival evidence called the fact that

2829
01:40:00,870 --> 01:39:58,719
there was a

2830
01:40:01,750 --> 01:40:00,880
a previous and ongoing relationship

2831
01:40:03,910 --> 01:40:01,760
between hull

2832
01:40:05,270 --> 01:40:03,920
and where documents were shared from

2833
01:40:07,669 --> 01:40:05,280
within them

2834
01:40:08,790 --> 01:40:07,679
to individual which some of which i'll

2835
01:40:10,629 --> 01:40:08,800
be

2836
01:40:12,310 --> 01:40:10,639
revealing and releasing in the next few

2837
01:40:14,149 --> 01:40:12,320
months um they make

2838
01:40:15,350 --> 01:40:14,159
really interesting reading they show

2839
01:40:17,830 --> 01:40:15,360
that it

2840
01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:17,840
it was being briefed by hal put off

2841
01:40:23,270 --> 01:40:19,440
about discoveries that

2842
01:40:26,390 --> 01:40:23,280
bigelow's was making and um

2843
01:40:27,510 --> 01:40:26,400
it's fascinating and and one of the one

2844
01:40:31,990 --> 01:40:27,520
of the things that

2845
01:40:36,070 --> 01:40:34,310
hal put off clearly thought that this

2846
01:40:37,189 --> 01:40:36,080
document was so significant that he

2847
01:40:40,229 --> 01:40:37,199
should send it to

2848
01:40:41,750 --> 01:40:40,239
an astronaut who quite openly talked

2849
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:41,760
about the fact that he thought the u.s

2850
01:40:45,510 --> 01:40:43,440
government was concealing

2851
01:40:47,830 --> 01:40:45,520
a secret about recovered

2852
01:40:51,430 --> 01:40:47,840
extraterrestrial spacecraft

2853
01:40:54,629 --> 01:40:51,440
and edgar told my source

2854
01:40:56,950 --> 01:40:54,639
space man the keeper of the archive that

2855
01:40:59,109 --> 01:40:56,960
as an astronaut he was told it was

2856
01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:59,119
treason to talk about what he knew and

2857
01:41:02,390 --> 01:41:00,560
what he saw

2858
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:02,400
during the apollo mission but it was

2859
01:41:08,070 --> 01:41:04,000
quite clear that edgar

2860
01:41:11,350 --> 01:41:08,080
was apprised of a whole world

2861
01:41:14,709 --> 01:41:11,360
of us efforts to recover

2862
01:41:16,470 --> 01:41:14,719
craft and to back engineer craft

2863
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:16,480
and he strongly believed that there was

2864
01:41:19,669 --> 01:41:18,480
an extraterrestrial presence on planet

2865
01:41:22,870 --> 01:41:19,679
earth

2866
01:41:25,189 --> 01:41:22,880
and so let's come to that memo if the

2867
01:41:27,669 --> 01:41:25,199
memo's contents are true and i emphasize

2868
01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:27,679
admiral tom wilson retired of the dia

2869
01:41:31,350 --> 01:41:29,760
says that they are not true that the

2870
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:31,360
document is a fabrication

2871
01:41:35,270 --> 01:41:33,199
it never happened we never had a meeting

2872
01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:35,280
with dr eric davis

2873
01:41:41,350 --> 01:41:38,800
in las vegas in 2002 met the guy

2874
01:41:43,350 --> 01:41:41,360
but if the document is true it means

2875
01:41:45,830 --> 01:41:43,360
that there is an aerospace company

2876
01:41:47,669 --> 01:41:45,840
that in the black behind multiple

2877
01:41:51,750 --> 01:41:47,679
special access programs

2878
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:51,760
is concealing recovered alien technology

2879
01:41:55,830 --> 01:41:53,679
which has been kept secret from most of

2880
01:41:58,070 --> 01:41:55,840
the congress most of the military

2881
01:41:59,109 --> 01:41:58,080
and so much so that even the joint

2882
01:42:03,990 --> 01:41:59,119
chiefs of staff

2883
01:42:09,430 --> 01:42:07,350
i'm fascinated because to me

2884
01:42:11,430 --> 01:42:09,440
it represents the most plausible way

2885
01:42:11,990 --> 01:42:11,440
that you could keep something like this

2886
01:42:14,790 --> 01:42:12,000
secret

2887
01:42:16,310 --> 01:42:14,800
if that document is genuine and the

2888
01:42:19,350 --> 01:42:16,320
interesting thing about it to me

2889
01:42:23,430 --> 01:42:19,360
is that the players eric davis

2890
01:42:26,070 --> 01:42:23,440
hal put off you know everybody involved

2891
01:42:27,510 --> 01:42:26,080
in that document with the exclusion of

2892
01:42:30,629 --> 01:42:27,520
admiral tom wilson

2893
01:42:33,830 --> 01:42:30,639
has conspicuously not

2894
01:42:34,950 --> 01:42:33,840
denied its prominence you know they've

2895
01:42:37,270 --> 01:42:34,960
actually

2896
01:42:38,070 --> 01:42:37,280
done nothing they've done everything if

2897
01:42:40,950 --> 01:42:38,080
you like to

2898
01:42:42,310 --> 01:42:40,960
avoid confirming its contents but they

2899
01:42:45,510 --> 01:42:42,320
haven't said it's not

2900
01:42:46,070 --> 01:42:45,520
a real document and that's conspicuous

2901
01:42:48,470 --> 01:42:46,080
to me

2902
01:42:50,070 --> 01:42:48,480
and i i i think there's also been

2903
01:42:51,750 --> 01:42:50,080
acknowledgements by how put off that

2904
01:42:55,030 --> 01:42:51,760
eric davis did

2905
01:42:58,470 --> 01:42:55,040
meet with um

2906
01:42:59,030 --> 01:42:58,480
admiral tom wilson so i don't know what

2907
01:43:01,189 --> 01:42:59,040
to think

2908
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:01,199
but the bottom line is if that document

2909
01:43:06,149 --> 01:43:03,040
is genuine then it represents

2910
01:43:07,189 --> 01:43:06,159
a perfect explanation for what's going

2911
01:43:09,669 --> 01:43:07,199
on

2912
01:43:10,629 --> 01:43:09,679
that there are people in private

2913
01:43:12,390 --> 01:43:10,639
aerospace

2914
01:43:14,790 --> 01:43:12,400
who are the gatekeepers to this

2915
01:43:17,109 --> 01:43:14,800
information they've been hiding it

2916
01:43:18,629 --> 01:43:17,119
probably since it was passed out of the

2917
01:43:22,870 --> 01:43:18,639
doe when the doe

2918
01:43:25,109 --> 01:43:22,880
came subject to foi laws in the 1970s

2919
01:43:26,470 --> 01:43:25,119
that's the department of energy and if

2920
01:43:28,229 --> 01:43:26,480
you think about it the best place to

2921
01:43:29,910 --> 01:43:28,239
hide this would have been inside the

2922
01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:29,920
department of energy which handles all

2923
01:43:32,550 --> 01:43:30,880
of your

2924
01:43:33,990 --> 01:43:32,560
nuclear weapons and nuclear power

2925
01:43:37,030 --> 01:43:34,000
technology

2926
01:43:38,149 --> 01:43:37,040
so if you were trying to keep something

2927
01:43:39,990 --> 01:43:38,159
super super secret

2928
01:43:41,669 --> 01:43:40,000
inside the american government you'd

2929
01:43:42,629 --> 01:43:41,679
actually keep it outside of even the

2930
01:43:45,669 --> 01:43:42,639
military

2931
01:43:46,390 --> 01:43:45,679
special access program protections you'd

2932
01:43:48,310 --> 01:43:46,400
keep it

2933
01:43:49,830 --> 01:43:48,320
maybe under acute clearance in the

2934
01:43:51,669 --> 01:43:49,840
department of energy

2935
01:43:53,669 --> 01:43:51,679
and certainly you'd have to have one or

2936
01:43:55,109 --> 01:43:53,679
two key military officials who were

2937
01:43:57,270 --> 01:43:55,119
briefed into this but

2938
01:43:59,109 --> 01:43:57,280
maybe you keep them at the level of the

2939
01:43:59,910 --> 01:43:59,119
senior review group of the special

2940
01:44:02,390 --> 01:43:59,920
access program

2941
01:44:04,310 --> 01:44:02,400
oversight committee orally brief them

2942
01:44:05,669 --> 01:44:04,320
have files that are completely separate

2943
01:44:07,510 --> 01:44:05,679
from the mainframe

2944
01:44:10,149 --> 01:44:07,520
and oddly enough that's what the admiral

2945
01:44:11,750 --> 01:44:10,159
tom wilson document describes

2946
01:44:13,189 --> 01:44:11,760
i mean the level of knowledge that's

2947
01:44:15,669 --> 01:44:13,199
required for somebody to have

2948
01:44:17,669 --> 01:44:15,679
constructed a hoax document like that

2949
01:44:18,870 --> 01:44:17,679
and to have had the names that it's got

2950
01:44:20,629 --> 01:44:18,880
within it

2951
01:44:22,310 --> 01:44:20,639
who were people who were operating at

2952
01:44:26,390 --> 01:44:22,320
the time it's a

2953
01:44:28,629 --> 01:44:26,400
masterful hoax if it's a hoax and

2954
01:44:30,790 --> 01:44:28,639
that's why i give credibility to the

2955
01:44:32,149 --> 01:44:30,800
admiral wilson document because i'm

2956
01:44:34,790 --> 01:44:32,159
aware of its providence

2957
01:44:37,669 --> 01:44:34,800
nobody else is you know i know that it

2958
01:44:39,270 --> 01:44:37,679
was in by hell put off

2959
01:44:41,430 --> 01:44:39,280
to edgar mitchell and that edgar

2960
01:44:43,430 --> 01:44:41,440
mitchell regarded it as so important

2961
01:44:44,950 --> 01:44:43,440
he literally stuffed it in his archive

2962
01:44:46,709 --> 01:44:44,960
files right next to

2963
01:44:49,430 --> 01:44:46,719
other documents that he received from

2964
01:44:50,950 --> 01:44:49,440
nibs and he attached great significance

2965
01:44:53,910 --> 01:44:50,960
to it and made sure that it was

2966
01:44:58,790 --> 01:44:53,920
protected and passed on after he died

2967
01:45:01,990 --> 01:45:00,070
the interesting thing though in that

2968
01:45:05,750 --> 01:45:02,000
document is there's no explanation

2969
01:45:07,910 --> 01:45:05,760
as to why it's been kept secret

2970
01:45:09,189 --> 01:45:07,920
i mean why let's assume the us has

2971
01:45:12,070 --> 01:45:09,199
recovered

2972
01:45:15,270 --> 01:45:12,080
alien technology and let's assume that

2973
01:45:18,470 --> 01:45:15,280
they haven't been able to replicate it

2974
01:45:20,709 --> 01:45:18,480
there comes a point i think where

2975
01:45:22,629 --> 01:45:20,719
they're just going to have to admit it

2976
01:45:24,550 --> 01:45:22,639
you know what what is the strategic

2977
01:45:26,470 --> 01:45:24,560
national security advantage in not

2978
01:45:28,950 --> 01:45:26,480
revealing it

2979
01:45:29,990 --> 01:45:28,960
unless we're on the cusp of a

2980
01:45:32,390 --> 01:45:30,000
breakthrough unless we're

2981
01:45:33,669 --> 01:45:32,400
on a cusp of finally achieving this

2982
01:45:37,270 --> 01:45:33,679
technology

2983
01:45:38,950 --> 01:45:37,280
and being able to show our rivals our

2984
01:45:40,709 --> 01:45:38,960
enemies that they can't

2985
01:45:43,750 --> 01:45:40,719
sprew with us because we actually have a

2986
01:45:45,830 --> 01:45:43,760
technology that is far beyond theirs

2987
01:45:48,149 --> 01:45:45,840
that's about the only plausible reason

2988
01:45:52,390 --> 01:45:48,159
that i can see for maintaining the

2989
01:45:54,629 --> 01:45:52,400
the secret uh if it's inconvenient

2990
01:45:55,990 --> 01:45:54,639
to the u.s air force or people inside

2991
01:45:57,590 --> 01:45:56,000
the u.s air force and

2992
01:45:59,189 --> 01:45:57,600
certain elements of the intelligence

2993
01:46:00,629 --> 01:45:59,199
services to reveal this because it's

2994
01:46:02,310 --> 01:46:00,639
kind of embarrassing to them

2995
01:46:05,350 --> 01:46:02,320
because it shows they've been

2996
01:46:06,790 --> 01:46:05,360
dishonorable men by lying

2997
01:46:08,390 --> 01:46:06,800
you know this that comes

2998
01:46:10,310 --> 01:46:08,400
through in the tom the long

2999
01:46:12,070 --> 01:46:10,320
interviews where tom says that they said

3000
01:46:14,950 --> 01:46:12,080
they were protecting the republic

3001
01:46:18,709 --> 01:46:14,960
by not revealing the secret in what way

3002
01:46:21,750 --> 01:46:20,229
you know i think that has to be

3003
01:46:25,910 --> 01:46:21,760
explained

3004
01:46:27,270 --> 01:46:25,920
and um i i think one of the things that

3005
01:46:29,990 --> 01:46:27,280
is going on at the moment

3006
01:46:30,629 --> 01:46:30,000
is whoever it is that is controlling the

3007
01:46:34,390 --> 01:46:30,639
secret

3008
01:46:36,629 --> 01:46:34,400
is trying to constrain the narrative um

3009
01:46:38,790 --> 01:46:36,639
i think they're hoping they can get away

3010
01:46:41,750 --> 01:46:38,800
with not revealing

3011
01:46:43,189 --> 01:46:41,760
recovered technology and i think it's

3012
01:46:44,709 --> 01:46:43,199
inconvenient to them

3013
01:46:46,709 --> 01:46:44,719
for there to be a discussion about

3014
01:46:48,950 --> 01:46:46,719
recovered technology

3015
01:46:50,950 --> 01:46:48,960
and i suspect that's part of the reason

3016
01:46:52,310 --> 01:46:50,960
why things have gone a little bit cold

3017
01:46:54,149 --> 01:46:52,320
because they were thinking they could

3018
01:46:56,950 --> 01:46:54,159
control the narrative

3019
01:46:58,870 --> 01:46:56,960
by revealing the uap task force is

3020
01:46:59,830 --> 01:46:58,880
giving credibility to this enormous

3021
01:47:02,229 --> 01:46:59,840
phenomenon

3022
01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:02,239
and saying wow yes we are going to

3023
01:47:06,390 --> 01:47:03,920
investigate this which essentially

3024
01:47:07,669 --> 01:47:06,400
really is just a recap of what happened

3025
01:47:10,229 --> 01:47:07,679
in the 1950s

3026
01:47:11,669 --> 01:47:10,239
the 1960s with project grudge and

3027
01:47:14,229 --> 01:47:11,679
project blue book

3028
01:47:15,750 --> 01:47:14,239
you know all it is is promises from the

3029
01:47:17,830 --> 01:47:15,760
us military that it's going to

3030
01:47:19,830 --> 01:47:17,840
investigate aerial phenomena

3031
01:47:21,750 --> 01:47:19,840
and that it's a mystery and that it's

3032
01:47:23,030 --> 01:47:21,760
real and that it's a potential national

3033
01:47:24,709 --> 01:47:23,040
security concern

3034
01:47:27,430 --> 01:47:24,719
that is no different from what was

3035
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:27,440
happening 60 seventy years ago

3036
01:47:37,189 --> 01:47:34,870
and just my personal you know you know

3037
01:47:38,550 --> 01:47:37,199
my personal opinion on the wilson davis

3038
01:47:39,830 --> 01:47:38,560
document

3039
01:47:41,830 --> 01:47:39,840
you know i met eric davis a couple of

3040
01:47:43,109 --> 01:47:41,840
years ago i met will miller in 2000.

3041
01:47:44,950 --> 01:47:43,119
those are two of the three

3042
01:47:47,830 --> 01:47:44,960
three people mentioned in the document

3043
01:47:50,149 --> 01:47:47,840
um eric davis has never told me anything

3044
01:47:51,830 --> 01:47:50,159
he said no comment i interviewed will

3045
01:47:53,189 --> 01:47:51,840
miller will miller denied that the

3046
01:47:54,709 --> 01:47:53,199
letter in there was his letter he said

3047
01:47:56,070 --> 01:47:54,719
it was a cut and paste job but when i

3048
01:47:57,669 --> 01:47:56,080
interviewed him

3049
01:47:59,590 --> 01:47:57,679
he did not want to comment about the

3050
01:48:01,030 --> 01:47:59,600
letter which is very telling to me

3051
01:48:03,510 --> 01:48:01,040
um there's other things he could have

3052
01:48:05,270 --> 01:48:03,520
said to and i know joe as well one of

3053
01:48:07,030 --> 01:48:05,280
the things that admiral tom wilson

3054
01:48:09,750 --> 01:48:07,040
actually says in that memo

3055
01:48:11,750 --> 01:48:09,760
reportedly is that if he's ever asked

3056
01:48:14,310 --> 01:48:11,760
about this he would lie about it

3057
01:48:15,750 --> 01:48:14,320
because any honorable officer and i'm

3058
01:48:18,550 --> 01:48:15,760
told tom's a good man

3059
01:48:20,709 --> 01:48:18,560
he's an honorable decent fella any

3060
01:48:23,750 --> 01:48:20,719
honorable person

3061
01:48:26,310 --> 01:48:23,760
tasked with the deed of protecting this

3062
01:48:29,750 --> 01:48:26,320
impulsive national security secret

3063
01:48:30,550 --> 01:48:29,760
has to lie about no i agree and when i

3064
01:48:32,470 --> 01:48:30,560
say

3065
01:48:33,990 --> 01:48:32,480
yeah i mean it's a it's a program he

3066
01:48:34,709 --> 01:48:34,000
can't acknowledge it and when i say he's

3067
01:48:37,270 --> 01:48:34,719
lying i don't

3068
01:48:39,189 --> 01:48:37,280
i don't ever i never say it in some

3069
01:48:39,830 --> 01:48:39,199
negative way he has to do what he has to

3070
01:48:41,510 --> 01:48:39,840
do

3071
01:48:43,669 --> 01:48:41,520
i've seen other things other people have

3072
01:48:45,109 --> 01:48:43,679
shown me things that convince me

3073
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:45,119
beyond a reasonable doubt that it's a

3074
01:48:49,430 --> 01:48:47,280
legitimate document whether or not

3075
01:48:50,629 --> 01:48:49,440
what's in the document is real well then

3076
01:48:50,870 --> 01:48:50,639
we talked about you know then we talked

3077
01:48:54,629 --> 01:48:50,880
to

3078
01:48:57,350 --> 01:48:54,639
think we have a craft

3079
01:48:58,550 --> 01:48:57,360
um i don't think the document is a movie

3080
01:49:00,709 --> 01:48:58,560
script i don't think

3081
01:49:02,229 --> 01:49:00,719
as somebody suggested eric davis was

3082
01:49:04,629 --> 01:49:02,239
fooled by an imposter

3083
01:49:06,070 --> 01:49:04,639
who only looked like admiral wilson some

3084
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:06,080
big name in our community and i won't

3085
01:49:09,830 --> 01:49:06,960
mention them there

3086
01:49:10,950 --> 01:49:09,840
here has recommended suggested that so

3087
01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:10,960
that's crazy to me

3088
01:49:15,990 --> 01:49:14,000
um so i do believe that um

3089
01:49:18,470 --> 01:49:16,000
but one thing that you wrote about which

3090
01:49:22,229 --> 01:49:18,480
i am amazed nobody has pointed out

3091
01:49:24,870 --> 01:49:22,239
oak shannon in billy cox interviewed

3092
01:49:26,550 --> 01:49:24,880
wilson a few years ago and he goes

3093
01:49:28,149 --> 01:49:26,560
he interviewed oak shannon and oak

3094
01:49:28,550 --> 01:49:28,159
shannon who was friends with eric davis

3095
01:49:29,910 --> 01:49:28,560
who

3096
01:49:32,229 --> 01:49:29,920
helped set up the meeting with tom

3097
01:49:34,470 --> 01:49:32,239
wilson he said

3098
01:49:35,270 --> 01:49:34,480
oak shannon said if i've i know both of

3099
01:49:37,750 --> 01:49:35,280
those gentlemen

3100
01:49:38,870 --> 01:49:37,760
and if i've caused any embarrassment to

3101
01:49:41,109 --> 01:49:38,880
admiral wilson

3102
01:49:42,790 --> 01:49:41,119
i apologize that wasn't my attention but

3103
01:49:44,070 --> 01:49:42,800
when you spoke to wilson when you got a

3104
01:49:44,870 --> 01:49:44,080
letter from wilson you could tell the

3105
01:49:46,950 --> 01:49:44,880
story

3106
01:49:49,109 --> 01:49:46,960
you know i was under the impression he

3107
01:49:51,910 --> 01:49:49,119
knew oak shannon pretty well

3108
01:49:52,790 --> 01:49:51,920
tom wilson basically denied knowing any

3109
01:49:55,589 --> 01:49:52,800
of these people

3110
01:49:56,070 --> 01:49:55,599
well at all and he basically led me to

3111
01:49:58,629 --> 01:49:56,080
the view

3112
01:50:00,390 --> 01:49:58,639
that um uh you know he didn't have

3113
01:50:01,189 --> 01:50:00,400
friendships with these people it wasn't

3114
01:50:03,430 --> 01:50:01,199
an issue

3115
01:50:06,310 --> 01:50:03,440
and it was quite clear from what oak

3116
01:50:09,669 --> 01:50:06,320
told billy cox the wonderful billy cox

3117
01:50:11,990 --> 01:50:09,679
that um uh that wasn't true um

3118
01:50:13,589 --> 01:50:12,000
that he did know them really well

3119
01:50:15,669 --> 01:50:13,599
particularly

3120
01:50:17,430 --> 01:50:15,679
and uh it was clear that the two of them

3121
01:50:18,149 --> 01:50:17,440
did have a friendship or some kind of

3122
01:50:20,470 --> 01:50:18,159
relationship

3123
01:50:21,750 --> 01:50:20,480
and both acknowledged that his response

3124
01:50:25,910 --> 01:50:21,760
to billy

3125
01:50:29,030 --> 01:50:25,920
so yeah i mean i i don't like speaking

3126
01:50:30,070 --> 01:50:29,040
ill of an american officer because i

3127
01:50:32,870 --> 01:50:30,080
can't understand

3128
01:50:34,950 --> 01:50:32,880
more tom wilson's motives but let's put

3129
01:50:37,830 --> 01:50:34,960
the best possible spin on it

3130
01:50:39,430 --> 01:50:37,840
um he's still bound by his national

3131
01:50:41,430 --> 01:50:39,440
security oath

3132
01:50:44,790 --> 01:50:41,440
he inadvertently because of his own

3133
01:50:46,950 --> 01:50:44,800
inquiries allegedly became aware of

3134
01:50:49,109 --> 01:50:46,960
a secret program that was being kept

3135
01:50:52,149 --> 01:50:49,119
secret even from the j-2

3136
01:50:53,830 --> 01:50:52,159
the joint chiefs of staff the person who

3137
01:50:55,510 --> 01:50:53,840
joined chiefs of staff on intelligent

3138
01:50:58,229 --> 01:50:55,520
matters um

3139
01:51:00,070 --> 01:50:58,239
he because of his perspective and his

3140
01:51:01,350 --> 01:51:00,080
diligence managed to discover this

3141
01:51:04,550 --> 01:51:01,360
secret

3142
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:04,560
and for

3143
01:51:09,910 --> 01:51:07,760
let's assume for reasons of the good and

3144
01:51:11,270 --> 01:51:09,920
the public interest he decided to brief

3145
01:51:14,950 --> 01:51:11,280
eric davis

3146
01:51:17,189 --> 01:51:14,960
whom he knew was a person who was

3147
01:51:18,470 --> 01:51:17,199
operating under um all manner of

3148
01:51:20,870 --> 01:51:18,480
national security oaths

3149
01:51:23,350 --> 01:51:20,880
in the top sector security constraints

3150
01:51:25,189 --> 01:51:23,360
so he was well recommended by

3151
01:51:27,990 --> 01:51:25,199
oak and other people as a person of

3152
01:51:29,910 --> 01:51:28,000
trust and eric made it clear in his

3153
01:51:31,350 --> 01:51:29,920
exchange with him and he honored that

3154
01:51:33,109 --> 01:51:31,360
that he never intended for this

3155
01:51:34,709 --> 01:51:33,119
information to become public but it was

3156
01:51:37,350 --> 01:51:34,719
for his own research

3157
01:51:39,510 --> 01:51:37,360
i mean the way in which the memo became

3158
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:39,520
public was completely inadvertent

3159
01:51:44,790 --> 01:51:42,800
because um uh you know

3160
01:51:46,149 --> 01:51:44,800
i i think when hull sent it to indian

3161
01:51:57,510 --> 01:51:46,159
literature it was clearly understood

3162
01:52:00,830 --> 01:51:59,030
he actually mentioned on several

3163
01:52:03,910 --> 01:52:00,840
occasions the fact that

3164
01:52:06,790 --> 01:52:03,920
um edgar mitchell did acknowledge

3165
01:52:08,709 --> 01:52:06,800
uh his awareness of the meeting between

3166
01:52:11,750 --> 01:52:08,719
a very senior pentagon official

3167
01:52:14,390 --> 01:52:11,760
and eric davis

3168
01:52:15,830 --> 01:52:14,400
uh in his lifetime so yeah i mean i

3169
01:52:17,430 --> 01:52:15,840
think there's a body of evidence there

3170
01:52:19,270 --> 01:52:17,440
that at the very least is worthy of

3171
01:52:21,350 --> 01:52:19,280
further investigation

3172
01:52:23,030 --> 01:52:21,360
and this is the difficulty imagine

3173
01:52:25,350 --> 01:52:23,040
you're the keeper of that secret

3174
01:52:26,070 --> 01:52:25,360
and you're now learning that elizondo

3175
01:52:29,830 --> 01:52:26,080
and melon

3176
01:52:32,310 --> 01:52:29,840
are speaking publicly about the covered

3177
01:52:34,149 --> 01:52:32,320
recovered advanced technology meta

3178
01:52:35,910 --> 01:52:34,159
materials that do astonishing things

3179
01:52:36,950 --> 01:52:35,920
when they have a waveform character

3180
01:52:40,070 --> 01:52:36,960
through them

3181
01:52:41,830 --> 01:52:40,080
um you'd freak because it might mean

3182
01:52:43,589 --> 01:52:41,840
that this cover-up of this

3183
01:52:46,070 --> 01:52:43,599
recovered technology is never going to

3184
01:52:48,229 --> 01:52:46,080
come up you can't control this narrative

3185
01:52:49,990 --> 01:52:48,239
but you don't want military witnesses

3186
01:52:52,629 --> 01:52:50,000
giving evidence at a congressional

3187
01:52:54,870 --> 01:52:52,639
inquiry that you can't control

3188
01:52:56,790 --> 01:52:54,880
and that's what i suspect is happening i

3189
01:52:57,270 --> 01:52:56,800
suspect that behind the scenes there are

3190
01:53:00,310 --> 01:52:57,280
people

3191
01:53:03,430 --> 01:53:00,320
who are determined to protect

3192
01:53:05,270 --> 01:53:03,440
this national security inheritance

3193
01:53:06,550 --> 01:53:05,280
who don't want to die they still think

3194
01:53:07,750 --> 01:53:06,560
it's inconvenient for this to be

3195
01:53:10,070 --> 01:53:07,760
revealed

3196
01:53:10,870 --> 01:53:10,080
and i'm not making excuses for them but

3197
01:53:12,550 --> 01:53:10,880
i can understand

3198
01:53:13,990 --> 01:53:12,560
why they might want to do that i don't

3199
01:53:15,669 --> 01:53:14,000
think it's sustainable

3200
01:53:18,390 --> 01:53:15,679
i think there's a momentum now the

3201
01:53:20,390 --> 01:53:18,400
genies out of the bottle

3202
01:53:22,470 --> 01:53:20,400
i agree they're putting the pressure on

3203
01:53:26,629 --> 01:53:22,480
history will judge

3204
01:53:28,550 --> 01:53:26,639
to do the right thing

3205
01:53:31,270 --> 01:53:28,560
let's assume for a moment that tom

3206
01:53:34,709 --> 01:53:31,280
wilson was one of the original muslim

3207
01:53:37,350 --> 01:53:34,719
in his own way inside the constraints

3208
01:53:39,189 --> 01:53:37,360
of his national security oath he felt

3209
01:53:40,470 --> 01:53:39,199
comfortable telling somebody like dr

3210
01:53:42,629 --> 01:53:40,480
eric davis

3211
01:53:43,669 --> 01:53:42,639
what he thought was the reality that he

3212
01:53:46,550 --> 01:53:43,679
discovered

3213
01:53:48,149 --> 01:53:46,560
he wanted an outside organization that

3214
01:53:50,870 --> 01:53:48,159
he viewed as responsible

3215
01:53:51,830 --> 01:53:50,880
and scientific to be aware of what he

3216
01:53:56,390 --> 01:53:51,840
knew

3217
01:53:58,310 --> 01:53:56,400
this film

3218
01:54:00,950 --> 01:53:58,320
i think history would judge him as a

3219
01:54:02,550 --> 01:54:00,960
patriot as a decent man

3220
01:54:04,310 --> 01:54:02,560
who within the constraints of his

3221
01:54:07,430 --> 01:54:04,320
national security guard

3222
01:54:09,109 --> 01:54:07,440
tried to do the right thing but i think

3223
01:54:10,629 --> 01:54:09,119
there are and i'm aware of these people

3224
01:54:11,350 --> 01:54:10,639
i've spoken to some of them i think

3225
01:54:14,390 --> 01:54:11,360
there are people

3226
01:54:17,990 --> 01:54:14,400
inside the program who similarly

3227
01:54:20,629 --> 01:54:18,000
question the utility of keeping it

3228
01:54:22,229 --> 01:54:20,639
secret and this is one of the issues

3229
01:54:24,229 --> 01:54:22,239
that you've been explaining to me

3230
01:54:26,709 --> 01:54:24,239
one scientist i spoke to explains to me

3231
01:54:28,790 --> 01:54:26,719
that a large part of the reason

3232
01:54:29,750 --> 01:54:28,800
why there hasn't been the kind of

3233
01:54:31,750 --> 01:54:29,760
breakthrough

3234
01:54:33,189 --> 01:54:31,760
in the propulsion technology that i

3235
01:54:36,390 --> 01:54:33,199
think the us

3236
01:54:40,030 --> 01:54:36,400
has been striving for over decades

3237
01:54:41,510 --> 01:54:40,040
is because the secret is so heavily

3238
01:54:44,390 --> 01:54:41,520
compartmentalized

3239
01:54:45,510 --> 01:54:44,400
it's so heavily constrained by security

3240
01:54:47,669 --> 01:54:45,520
constraints

3241
01:54:50,149 --> 01:54:47,679
that scientists can't do what scientists

3242
01:54:53,669 --> 01:54:50,159
normally do which is share information

3243
01:54:54,950 --> 01:54:53,679
exchange ideas chew the fat about a

3244
01:54:58,310 --> 01:54:54,960
problem

3245
01:55:01,189 --> 01:54:58,320
and i notice even lazar

3246
01:55:03,189 --> 01:55:01,199
bob lazar he's telling the truth i'm not

3247
01:55:04,950 --> 01:55:03,199
saying he is but let's say

3248
01:55:07,109 --> 01:55:04,960
assume for a moment that he is telling

3249
01:55:08,229 --> 01:55:07,119
the truth he was acknowledging that

3250
01:55:10,790 --> 01:55:08,239
there appeared to be

3251
01:55:11,990 --> 01:55:10,800
frustration uh in the efforts that were

3252
01:55:15,510 --> 01:55:12,000
being made

3253
01:55:17,109 --> 01:55:15,520
the mythical escort to reassemble the

3254
01:55:19,030 --> 01:55:17,119
technology or back engineer the

3255
01:55:20,790 --> 01:55:19,040
technology that was represented by what

3256
01:55:22,790 --> 01:55:20,800
he was asked to look at

3257
01:55:24,870 --> 01:55:22,800
um and that year that he came out is the

3258
01:55:26,390 --> 01:55:24,880
same year that in the document or no the

3259
01:55:27,109 --> 01:55:26,400
same year eric davis has said in

3260
01:55:29,109 --> 01:55:27,119
interviews

3261
01:55:30,709 --> 01:55:29,119
that's when the program was last put

3262
01:55:33,350 --> 01:55:30,719
away 89 which is

3263
01:55:34,229 --> 01:55:33,360
interesting and isn't it interesting

3264
01:55:37,510 --> 01:55:34,239
that probably

3265
01:55:38,310 --> 01:55:37,520
two years after the exposes by george

3266
01:55:40,629 --> 01:55:38,320
knapp

3267
01:55:41,430 --> 01:55:40,639
all of a sudden my sources in australia

3268
01:55:43,830 --> 01:55:41,440
start seeing

3269
01:55:45,990 --> 01:55:43,840
weird triangular objects hovering over

3270
01:55:48,149 --> 01:55:46,000
remote parts of american bases

3271
01:55:50,709 --> 01:55:48,159
in northwestern australia funny

3272
01:55:52,149 --> 01:55:50,719
coincidence huh

3273
01:55:53,830 --> 01:55:52,159
nice coincidence and i know you only

3274
01:55:56,149 --> 01:55:53,840
have five minutes left

3275
01:55:58,310 --> 01:55:56,159
what was it in the book what was not in

3276
01:56:00,310 --> 01:55:58,320
the book what have you learned since

3277
01:56:01,910 --> 01:56:00,320
then since you published that would just

3278
01:56:03,109 --> 01:56:01,920
amaze people something really

3279
01:56:04,390 --> 01:56:03,119
interesting

3280
01:56:07,270 --> 01:56:04,400
i would like to talk about slide nine

3281
01:56:09,510 --> 01:56:07,280
but we do not have time some other time

3282
01:56:11,189 --> 01:56:09,520
yeah well actually one of the things

3283
01:56:15,030 --> 01:56:11,199
that i

3284
01:56:17,990 --> 01:56:15,040
i have learned since i wrote the book is

3285
01:56:18,390 --> 01:56:18,000
that my focus our focus investigating

3286
01:56:21,669 --> 01:56:18,400
this

3287
01:56:25,030 --> 01:56:21,679
needs to be much much more in the field

3288
01:56:27,830 --> 01:56:25,040
of how whatever this

3289
01:56:29,830 --> 01:56:27,840
is is capable of manipulating human

3290
01:56:32,229 --> 01:56:29,840
perception and consciousness

3291
01:56:32,870 --> 01:56:32,239
i do think slide 9 is integral i really

3292
01:56:35,510 --> 01:56:32,880
do

3293
01:56:36,870 --> 01:56:35,520
slide 9 being a powerpoint briefing

3294
01:56:38,070 --> 01:56:36,880
slide that was given to the under

3295
01:56:40,629 --> 01:56:38,080
secretary of the

3296
01:56:42,790 --> 01:56:40,639
defense department which talked as you

3297
01:56:44,950 --> 01:56:42,800
say here that the science exists for an

3298
01:56:47,350 --> 01:56:44,960
enemy of the united states to manipulate

3299
01:56:49,830 --> 01:56:47,360
both physical and cognitive environments

3300
01:56:52,149 --> 01:56:49,840
in order to penetrate u.s facilities

3301
01:56:53,589 --> 01:56:52,159
it was a very clear statement to the

3302
01:56:56,070 --> 01:56:53,599
under secretary for the defense

3303
01:56:59,430 --> 01:56:56,080
department that whatever this technology

3304
01:57:03,430 --> 01:56:59,440
is it is capable of amazing

3305
01:57:06,149 --> 01:57:03,440
things and it was essentially a pitch

3306
01:57:08,229 --> 01:57:06,159
by hatef the advanced aerospace threat

3307
01:57:10,470 --> 01:57:08,239
identification program the people

3308
01:57:12,229 --> 01:57:10,480
investigating the phenomenon for the

3309
01:57:13,270 --> 01:57:12,239
office of the director of national

3310
01:57:15,350 --> 01:57:13,280
intelligence

3311
01:57:16,310 --> 01:57:15,360
it was their pitch to essentially get

3312
01:57:18,950 --> 01:57:16,320
increased funding

3313
01:57:20,950 --> 01:57:18,960
and to argue that this is and this was a

3314
01:57:23,669 --> 01:57:20,960
national security issue

3315
01:57:25,030 --> 01:57:23,679
what this phenomenon is capable of doing

3316
01:57:27,270 --> 01:57:25,040
and

3317
01:57:28,870 --> 01:57:27,280
you know for what it's worth i have

3318
01:57:32,709 --> 01:57:28,880
become more certain

3319
01:57:36,550 --> 01:57:32,719
since i wrote the book that there is uh

3320
01:57:39,750 --> 01:57:36,560
multiple intelligent technologies

3321
01:57:41,430 --> 01:57:39,760
operating here i suspect part of it

3322
01:57:45,510 --> 01:57:41,440
might be experimental u.s

3323
01:57:49,030 --> 01:57:45,520
technology but i don't think it explains

3324
01:57:52,149 --> 01:57:49,040
all of the phenomena and i do think that

3325
01:57:54,629 --> 01:57:52,159
there is quite probably

3326
01:57:55,750 --> 01:57:54,639
uh some kind of intelligence that is not

3327
01:57:59,030 --> 01:57:55,760
human that is

3328
01:58:02,390 --> 01:57:59,040
operating on our planet that is doing

3329
01:58:04,149 --> 01:58:02,400
weird and uh i think slide nine

3330
01:58:06,629 --> 01:58:04,159
pretty much acknowledges that and

3331
01:58:08,310 --> 01:58:06,639
and to me the significance of slight

3332
01:58:10,310 --> 01:58:08,320
nine is that it was intended

3333
01:58:12,229 --> 01:58:10,320
for a classified briefing for the under

3334
01:58:14,790 --> 01:58:12,239
secretary of the defense department

3335
01:58:15,270 --> 01:58:14,800
this is what your defence planners were

3336
01:58:18,629 --> 01:58:15,280
being

3337
01:58:21,430 --> 01:58:18,639
told and it's mind-blowing

3338
01:58:21,910 --> 01:58:21,440
and a large part of what i've learned

3339
01:58:25,270 --> 01:58:21,920
since

3340
01:58:29,270 --> 01:58:25,280
writing the book is that

3341
01:58:31,510 --> 01:58:29,280
a large part of what people are seeing

3342
01:58:33,030 --> 01:58:31,520
and engaging and experiencing with the

3343
01:58:34,550 --> 01:58:33,040
phenomenon

3344
01:58:36,070 --> 01:58:34,560
is something that is capable of

3345
01:58:39,589 --> 01:58:36,080
manipulating

3346
01:58:41,270 --> 01:58:39,599
what we see and that's

3347
01:58:43,350 --> 01:58:41,280
disturbing and more than a little

3348
01:58:46,470 --> 01:58:43,360
frightening because one

3349
01:58:47,990 --> 01:58:46,480
it shows that the united states and any

3350
01:58:48,790 --> 01:58:48,000
military power on the planet is

3351
01:58:51,589 --> 01:58:48,800
completely

3352
01:58:53,510 --> 01:58:51,599
powerless in such a technology and i can

3353
01:58:55,270 --> 01:58:53,520
understand why any country wouldn't want

3354
01:58:56,070 --> 01:58:55,280
to acknowledge that to its citizenry

3355
01:59:00,390 --> 01:58:56,080
because it might

3356
01:59:02,390 --> 01:59:00,400
scare people but two it also raises the

3357
01:59:04,149 --> 01:59:02,400
possibility that there is some kind of

3358
01:59:07,510 --> 01:59:04,159
intelligence that isn't

3359
01:59:09,189 --> 01:59:07,520
extra terrestrial but there's something

3360
01:59:10,950 --> 01:59:09,199
that we share our planet with

3361
01:59:12,550 --> 01:59:10,960
uh and that's something that i noticed

3362
01:59:14,470 --> 01:59:12,560
lou particularly louis

3363
01:59:15,750 --> 01:59:14,480
zondo was hinted at quite strongly in

3364
01:59:17,510 --> 01:59:15,760
the last few months

3365
01:59:20,950 --> 01:59:17,520
he's done a number of identities where

3366
01:59:25,189 --> 01:59:20,960
he's used the word intra-terrestrial

3367
01:59:26,950 --> 01:59:25,199
and uh interdimensional so

3368
01:59:29,109 --> 01:59:26,960
all i can promise you joe is things are

3369
01:59:30,390 --> 01:59:29,119
about to start getting very interesting

3370
01:59:32,229 --> 01:59:30,400
because i don't think the genie is going

3371
01:59:35,669 --> 01:59:32,239
to go back into the bottle i

3372
01:59:37,510 --> 01:59:35,679
really i really do think we're destined

3373
01:59:39,189 --> 01:59:37,520
for interesting times ahead

3374
01:59:40,790 --> 01:59:39,199
i agree i mean as long as much as we

3375
01:59:42,870 --> 01:59:40,800
were worried about this being a repeat

3376
01:59:44,070 --> 01:59:42,880
of the 50s i think

3377
01:59:45,589 --> 01:59:44,080
i'm excited you know i'm still

3378
01:59:47,510 --> 01:59:45,599
open-minded and i'm i'm looking forward

3379
01:59:49,589 --> 01:59:47,520
to what happens we'll see um

3380
01:59:53,430 --> 01:59:49,599
real quick you're open about you're just

3381
01:59:55,030 --> 01:59:53,440
open-minded about abductions and my labs

3382
01:59:56,629 --> 01:59:55,040
i am yeah i mean there's been a

3383
01:59:58,870 --> 01:59:56,639
misconception that i'm dismissive of

3384
02:00:01,350 --> 01:59:58,880
them i'm not i'm also interested in

3385
02:00:03,750 --> 02:00:01,360
cattle mutilations

3386
02:00:04,870 --> 02:00:03,760
i don't know if it's linked to the uap

3387
02:00:07,669 --> 02:00:04,880
phenomenon but

3388
02:00:08,390 --> 02:00:07,679
i suspect that it is i've had some

3389
02:00:11,189 --> 02:00:08,400
awesome

3390
02:00:12,950 --> 02:00:11,199
conversations since i did a story tv

3391
02:00:14,070 --> 02:00:12,960
story about cattle mutilations here in

3392
02:00:15,750 --> 02:00:14,080
australia

3393
02:00:17,189 --> 02:00:15,760
which was kind of like separate from the

3394
02:00:19,109 --> 02:00:17,199
documentary i made

3395
02:00:20,870 --> 02:00:19,119
i think funnily enough the tv station

3396
02:00:22,070 --> 02:00:20,880
that i made the show with were a bit

3397
02:00:23,350 --> 02:00:22,080
embarrassed about putting cattle

3398
02:00:25,910 --> 02:00:23,360
mutilations into the first

3399
02:00:27,510 --> 02:00:25,920
story but oddly when we actually looked

3400
02:00:29,030 --> 02:00:27,520
at the cattle mutilations issue we

3401
02:00:31,830 --> 02:00:29,040
became convinced that

3402
02:00:33,910 --> 02:00:31,840
it is just the most incredible story

3403
02:00:36,709 --> 02:00:33,920
i've had multiple i think six

3404
02:00:37,830 --> 02:00:36,719
veterinarians have told me um that

3405
02:00:41,669 --> 02:00:37,840
they've seen

3406
02:00:44,470 --> 02:00:41,679
anomalous excisions of organs that just

3407
02:00:45,109 --> 02:00:44,480
cannot be explained it's as one of them

3408
02:00:47,990 --> 02:00:45,119
said to me

3409
02:00:49,830 --> 02:00:48,000
it's like they used a laser scalpel and

3410
02:00:53,510 --> 02:00:49,840
authorized the wound

3411
02:00:58,390 --> 02:00:53,520
at a microscopic level where for example

3412
02:01:00,229 --> 02:00:58,400
the entire um rectum and anus of a cow

3413
02:01:02,149 --> 02:01:00,239
including parts of its lower intestine

3414
02:01:06,629 --> 02:01:02,159
were excised

3415
02:01:08,870 --> 02:01:06,639
and removed without any discernable

3416
02:01:09,750 --> 02:01:08,880
excisions on the exterior of the animal

3417
02:01:12,390 --> 02:01:09,760
uh and

3418
02:01:14,390 --> 02:01:12,400
when you internally examined the animal

3419
02:01:17,109 --> 02:01:14,400
adjoining blood vessels that were

3420
02:01:18,550 --> 02:01:17,119
microns thick right next to where this

3421
02:01:22,310 --> 02:01:18,560
organ had been

3422
02:01:24,629 --> 02:01:22,320
was still intact and uh as he said to me

3423
02:01:27,030 --> 02:01:24,639
one said he said look i i can't think of

3424
02:01:30,149 --> 02:01:27,040
any technology that could do

3425
02:01:33,030 --> 02:01:30,159
what that represents it's mind-blowing

3426
02:01:33,669 --> 02:01:33,040
so cattle mutilations is as confronting

3427
02:01:37,270 --> 02:01:33,679
and as

3428
02:01:39,589 --> 02:01:37,280
um disturbing as they are

3429
02:01:41,030 --> 02:01:39,599
i'm sure they're real whatever they are

3430
02:01:43,750 --> 02:01:41,040
and and they're just part of an

3431
02:01:47,270 --> 02:01:43,760
accumulation of phenomena that require

3432
02:01:49,109 --> 02:01:47,280
investigation and i think the longer the

3433
02:01:51,750 --> 02:01:49,119
media giggle and ridicule

3434
02:01:53,030 --> 02:01:51,760
and stigmatize the subject the less

3435
02:01:54,629 --> 02:01:53,040
we're ever going to get a breakthrough

3436
02:01:56,950 --> 02:01:54,639
in the area and

3437
02:01:57,990 --> 02:01:56,960
the one thing i take great apart from

3438
02:02:01,750 --> 02:01:58,000
you know frankly

3439
02:02:04,470 --> 02:02:01,760
is that shows like yours

3440
02:02:05,669 --> 02:02:04,480
forums like social media platforms like

3441
02:02:08,950 --> 02:02:05,679
youtube

3442
02:02:11,270 --> 02:02:08,960
twitter facebook instagram

3443
02:02:12,390 --> 02:02:11,280
they are becoming more important than

3444
02:02:15,669 --> 02:02:12,400
mainstream media

3445
02:02:17,669 --> 02:02:15,679
this issue

3446
02:02:19,350 --> 02:02:17,679
it's ridiculed and stigmatized the

3447
02:02:20,629 --> 02:02:19,360
subject and it's allowed itself to be

3448
02:02:22,790 --> 02:02:20,639
manipulated

3449
02:02:24,229 --> 02:02:22,800
and the gatekeepers of this information

3450
02:02:25,910 --> 02:02:24,239
the people who are trying to keep it

3451
02:02:28,229 --> 02:02:25,920
secret they're in a complete panic

3452
02:02:30,790 --> 02:02:28,239
because they can't do anything to stop

3453
02:02:31,589 --> 02:02:30,800
people like you or me from investigating

3454
02:02:33,109 --> 02:02:31,599
it

3455
02:02:35,430 --> 02:02:33,119
and there's a certain freedom there

3456
02:02:37,669 --> 02:02:35,440
because in the past they could walk into

3457
02:02:39,510 --> 02:02:37,679
the editor of a newspaper and say

3458
02:02:41,270 --> 02:02:39,520
the small chat would be really nice if

3459
02:02:45,030 --> 02:02:41,280
you stopped looking at that

3460
02:02:46,550 --> 02:02:45,040
we're still ufo in melbourne in 1966 you

3461
02:02:47,350 --> 02:02:46,560
know please stop publishing stories

3462
02:02:49,109 --> 02:02:47,360
about that it's

3463
02:02:51,589 --> 02:02:49,119
it's really not good for national

3464
02:02:55,270 --> 02:02:51,599
security

3465
02:02:57,350 --> 02:02:55,280
yes yes of course absolutely

3466
02:02:58,870 --> 02:02:57,360
that that era is over because there's

3467
02:03:00,550 --> 02:02:58,880
now a

3468
02:03:02,229 --> 02:03:00,560
wisdom of the crowd you know there are

3469
02:03:04,149 --> 02:03:02,239
people out there and i've i've been

3470
02:03:07,109 --> 02:03:04,159
really heartened by the fact that

3471
02:03:08,390 --> 02:03:07,119
um you know every day i mean i turned on

3472
02:03:09,990 --> 02:03:08,400
my phone this morning and i

3473
02:03:11,750 --> 02:03:10,000
groaned because there was about another

3474
02:03:14,070 --> 02:03:11,760
three or four hundred messages you know

3475
02:03:14,870 --> 02:03:14,080
uh every night i get messages from

3476
02:03:17,189 --> 02:03:14,880
people

3477
02:03:18,310 --> 02:03:17,199
offering me more information including

3478
02:03:19,990 --> 02:03:18,320
insiders

3479
02:03:21,350 --> 02:03:20,000
people who are corresponding with me and

3480
02:03:23,910 --> 02:03:21,360
you can find by the way

3481
02:03:25,830 --> 02:03:23,920
my proton mail email encrypted email on

3482
02:03:27,430 --> 02:03:25,840
my twitter handle

3483
02:03:29,270 --> 02:03:27,440
you know people are sending me

3484
02:03:30,070 --> 02:03:29,280
information every day i just can't keep

3485
02:03:31,990 --> 02:03:30,080
up with it

3486
02:03:33,270 --> 02:03:32,000
but what it shows me is there is a

3487
02:03:36,870 --> 02:03:33,280
hunger outreach

3488
02:03:40,390 --> 02:03:36,880
for the information there is a desire

3489
02:03:42,790 --> 02:03:40,400
for um somebody to

3490
02:03:44,229 --> 02:03:42,800
look at this issue and i'm certainly not

3491
02:03:46,229 --> 02:03:44,239
going to be able to do it all myself

3492
02:03:48,310 --> 02:03:46,239
and that's where people like yourself

3493
02:03:49,990 --> 02:03:48,320
and numerous other people who are doing

3494
02:03:53,510 --> 02:03:50,000
great work in social media

3495
02:03:55,910 --> 02:03:53,520
and online you guys matter

3496
02:03:56,709 --> 02:03:55,920
much much more than you realize and and

3497
02:03:59,030 --> 02:03:56,719
um

3498
02:03:59,990 --> 02:03:59,040
i think frankly mainstream masthead

3499
02:04:03,109 --> 02:04:00,000
media matters

3500
02:04:05,030 --> 02:04:03,119
much less than it thinks um it's it's

3501
02:04:07,430 --> 02:04:05,040
far less relevant

3502
02:04:08,709 --> 02:04:07,440
i mean i've i've done interviews

3503
02:04:11,189 --> 02:04:08,719
recently which i know

3504
02:04:12,629 --> 02:04:11,199
have been watched by many many hundreds

3505
02:04:16,390 --> 02:04:12,639
of thousands of people

3506
02:04:19,270 --> 02:04:16,400
and they've been predominantly online

3507
02:04:20,790 --> 02:04:19,280
uh and yet the major mass circulation

3508
02:04:22,550 --> 02:04:20,800
newspapers in my country

3509
02:04:24,069 --> 02:04:22,560
are lucky if they have a circulation of

3510
02:04:27,030 --> 02:04:24,079
more than 100

3511
02:04:28,069 --> 02:04:27,040
000 paid subscribers per day and that's

3512
02:04:29,750 --> 02:04:28,079
pretty much the case

3513
02:04:32,229 --> 02:04:29,760
everywhere in the world including in

3514
02:04:34,709 --> 02:04:32,239
america the masthead media

3515
02:04:36,069 --> 02:04:34,719
really only has the power and the clout

3516
02:04:39,189 --> 02:04:36,079
that it has

3517
02:04:41,910 --> 02:04:39,199
because we assume that it does

3518
02:04:43,189 --> 02:04:41,920
that era is over you know the the

3519
02:04:46,790 --> 02:04:43,199
reality is that

3520
02:04:48,629 --> 02:04:46,800
there is a a delightful tyranny

3521
02:04:49,990 --> 02:04:48,639
a lovely anarchy that's coming with

3522
02:04:52,790 --> 02:04:50,000
social media which

3523
02:04:54,629 --> 02:04:52,800
they can't control and it's no

3524
02:04:56,470 --> 02:04:54,639
coincidence that this

3525
02:04:57,669 --> 02:04:56,480
transparency and accountability is

3526
02:05:00,390 --> 02:04:57,679
beginning to happen

3527
02:05:02,390 --> 02:05:00,400
now at a time when social media is

3528
02:05:05,350 --> 02:05:02,400
assuming a relevance and a dominance

3529
02:05:07,270 --> 02:05:05,360
frankly that it never had before

3530
02:05:08,790 --> 02:05:07,280
it's getting really interesting and

3531
02:05:11,830 --> 02:05:08,800
that's why

3532
02:05:14,310 --> 02:05:11,840
you know you're seeing pushes now for

3533
02:05:15,189 --> 02:05:14,320
facebook to be controlled you know

3534
02:05:16,709 --> 02:05:15,199
congress and

3535
02:05:18,470 --> 02:05:16,719
parliaments and different countries

3536
02:05:19,589 --> 02:05:18,480
you're trying to restrain what people

3537
02:05:22,310 --> 02:05:19,599
can say

3538
02:05:23,669 --> 02:05:22,320
and express on social media and i think

3539
02:05:26,790 --> 02:05:23,679
it's a very dangerous thing

3540
02:05:28,629 --> 02:05:26,800
because it's the forum where

3541
02:05:31,830 --> 02:05:28,639
a lot of these questions are now going

3542
02:05:34,390 --> 02:05:31,840
to begin to be answered

3543
02:05:35,109 --> 02:05:34,400
and you can answer this short ross i

3544
02:05:36,870 --> 02:05:35,119
promised a friend

3545
02:05:38,310 --> 02:05:36,880
answer's short i know i didn't expect

3546
02:05:39,350 --> 02:05:38,320
you to answer the last one so long and i

3547
02:05:41,750 --> 02:05:39,360
don't want to keep you

3548
02:05:43,350 --> 02:05:41,760
your your sources anybody say we're

3549
02:05:44,950 --> 02:05:43,360
dealing with interdimensional

3550
02:05:46,790 --> 02:05:44,960
and has they discussed whether or not

3551
02:05:49,669 --> 02:05:46,800
it's one intelligence

3552
02:05:49,990 --> 02:05:49,679
acting portraying itself as many or is

3553
02:05:51,830 --> 02:05:50,000
it

3554
02:05:53,750 --> 02:05:51,840
several intelligences according to

3555
02:05:56,229 --> 02:05:53,760
various sources you've spoken to

3556
02:05:57,910 --> 02:05:56,239
um i i have not had sources that have

3557
02:06:01,189 --> 02:05:57,920
been categorical with me

3558
02:06:03,030 --> 02:06:01,199
about what the phenomenon is

3559
02:06:05,030 --> 02:06:03,040
that provided this technology they've

3560
02:06:07,669 --> 02:06:05,040
talked about the technology

3561
02:06:09,510 --> 02:06:07,679
and they've talked about how advanced it

3562
02:06:12,069 --> 02:06:09,520
is it represents nothing

3563
02:06:12,629 --> 02:06:12,079
that is known within human science i

3564
02:06:15,350 --> 02:06:12,639
mean

3565
02:06:16,950 --> 02:06:15,360
nat for example nat kobets the director

3566
02:06:18,790 --> 02:06:16,960
of science and technology development

3567
02:06:21,430 --> 02:06:18,800
for the us navy when he

3568
02:06:23,350 --> 02:06:21,440
himself up in private business he

3569
02:06:26,790 --> 02:06:23,360
specialized in a form of

3570
02:06:29,510 --> 02:06:26,800
welding called electron beam welding

3571
02:06:31,270 --> 02:06:29,520
which was a very very high quality super

3572
02:06:34,310 --> 02:06:31,280
strong form of welding which

3573
02:06:36,709 --> 02:06:34,320
doesn't leave the traditional bead that

3574
02:06:37,990 --> 02:06:36,719
is normally left with a conventional

3575
02:06:40,470 --> 02:06:38,000
welder

3576
02:06:41,910 --> 02:06:40,480
and he worked on i think the c4 galaxy

3577
02:06:43,589 --> 02:06:41,920
undercarriage and

3578
02:06:45,510 --> 02:06:43,599
he was well known and well acknowledged

3579
02:06:46,950 --> 02:06:45,520
inside the u.s air force in particular

3580
02:06:50,709 --> 02:06:46,960
as somebody who knew his

3581
02:06:53,750 --> 02:06:50,719
stuff with high quality metal bonding

3582
02:06:55,350 --> 02:06:53,760
and for that reason after he

3583
02:06:57,510 --> 02:06:55,360
went into private enterprise he was

3584
02:07:00,149 --> 02:06:57,520
called by the us air force and asked

3585
02:07:01,510 --> 02:07:00,159
to come to the right patterson air force

3586
02:07:03,030 --> 02:07:01,520
base

3587
02:07:05,030 --> 02:07:03,040
which you and i would know as the

3588
02:07:08,390 --> 02:07:05,040
foreign technology division

3589
02:07:12,229 --> 02:07:08,400
and under heavy security he was shown

3590
02:07:15,030 --> 02:07:12,239
what he described to me as a bulkhead

3591
02:07:15,830 --> 02:07:15,040
and he suspected that it was something

3592
02:07:17,830 --> 02:07:15,840
alien

3593
02:07:19,990 --> 02:07:17,840
he suspected that what he was looking at

3594
02:07:22,069 --> 02:07:20,000
was not this world because

3595
02:07:23,750 --> 02:07:22,079
and and his suspicion was confirmed when

3596
02:07:26,390 --> 02:07:23,760
he looked at it both

3597
02:07:29,030 --> 02:07:26,400
um his own eyes and up close with

3598
02:07:31,270 --> 02:07:29,040
electrons getting microscope because

3599
02:07:33,270 --> 02:07:31,280
they were wanting to know whether it was

3600
02:07:36,709 --> 02:07:33,280
possible that he had been bonded

3601
02:07:37,270 --> 02:07:36,719
using electron beam welding technology

3602
02:07:39,430 --> 02:07:37,280
and

3603
02:07:41,350 --> 02:07:39,440
he could see immediately that it wasn't

3604
02:07:43,109 --> 02:07:41,360
and when he looked at it at a molecular

3605
02:07:45,750 --> 02:07:43,119
microscopic level

3606
02:07:46,950 --> 02:07:45,760
he said it was mind-blowing because

3607
02:07:50,310 --> 02:07:46,960
whatever it was

3608
02:07:53,030 --> 02:07:50,320
it had been bonded at the atomic level

3609
02:07:53,750 --> 02:07:53,040
it was like layers of electrons had been

3610
02:07:57,189 --> 02:07:53,760
bonded

3611
02:07:59,189 --> 02:07:57,199
in a way that he just could not explain

3612
02:08:01,270 --> 02:07:59,199
and that is fascinating to me because

3613
02:08:03,589 --> 02:08:01,280
that was on the record source

3614
02:08:05,189 --> 02:08:03,599
telling me that he'd seen something that

3615
02:08:08,950 --> 02:08:05,199
he suspects

3616
02:08:11,910 --> 02:08:08,960
was not of this world

3617
02:08:12,709 --> 02:08:11,920
and with that amazing piece of

3618
02:08:15,189 --> 02:08:12,719
information

3619
02:08:16,629 --> 02:08:15,199
and i want to thank you for being here i

3620
02:08:19,350 --> 02:08:16,639
want to thank you for the past

3621
02:08:20,870 --> 02:08:19,360
year and whatever it's been answering my

3622
02:08:22,229 --> 02:08:20,880
questions in our conversations because

3623
02:08:23,910 --> 02:08:22,239
you helped me a lot

3624
02:08:25,350 --> 02:08:23,920
and i hope your book your book is

3625
02:08:27,189 --> 02:08:25,360
important i hope a lot of mainstream

3626
02:08:28,629 --> 02:08:27,199
people read it and it just gets them

3627
02:08:29,990 --> 02:08:28,639
just looking into the evidence that's

3628
02:08:31,350 --> 02:08:30,000
all we need just take a serious look

3629
02:08:32,390 --> 02:08:31,360
with an open mind and that's we can go

3630
02:08:34,870 --> 02:08:32,400
from there

3631
02:08:35,589 --> 02:08:34,880
and vice versa joe i i don't think

3632
02:08:37,830 --> 02:08:35,599
people

3633
02:08:39,669 --> 02:08:37,840
like yourself realize the role and the

3634
02:08:42,069 --> 02:08:39,679
impact that you have here

3635
02:08:44,229 --> 02:08:42,079
as louis has emphasized i think social

3636
02:08:46,310 --> 02:08:44,239
media is the key

3637
02:08:47,910 --> 02:08:46,320
great all right ross good luck with the

3638
02:08:50,149 --> 02:08:47,920
rest of your interviews i appreciate the

3639
02:08:51,270 --> 02:08:50,159
time and we'll talk soon all this man

3640
02:08:54,550 --> 02:08:51,280
cheers bye-bye

3641
02:08:56,550 --> 02:08:54,560
bye and that is it

3642
02:08:58,790 --> 02:08:56,560
i was hoping some would call in but

3643
02:09:00,229 --> 02:08:58,800
nobody called in i think people are shy

3644
02:09:02,870 --> 02:09:00,239
which is kind of disappointing but i

3645
02:09:07,270 --> 02:09:05,350
and i was gonna do an ask me anything

3646
02:09:09,030 --> 02:09:07,280
with michael on

3647
02:09:10,870 --> 02:09:09,040
saturday but he's having some health

3648
02:09:12,470 --> 02:09:10,880
issues so

3649
02:09:14,470 --> 02:09:12,480
we can't do that if you guys have any

3650
02:09:15,669 --> 02:09:14,480
questions for me i will stick around for

3651
02:09:18,229 --> 02:09:15,679
a little bit more and we can

3652
02:09:20,149 --> 02:09:18,239
i wish we gotta we gotta get people to

3653
02:09:21,430 --> 02:09:20,159
call in i love that i love that we get

3654
02:09:23,189 --> 02:09:21,440
people calling from anywhere in the

3655
02:09:24,870 --> 02:09:23,199
world but you wanna ask questions

3656
02:09:26,470 --> 02:09:24,880
i i checked the chat i didn't see any

3657
02:09:28,390 --> 02:09:26,480
questions popping up for ross and i

3658
02:09:29,750 --> 02:09:28,400
probably missed him

3659
02:09:33,189 --> 02:09:29,760
because i was trying to focus on what he

3660
02:09:35,510 --> 02:09:33,199
was saying um

3661
02:09:36,709 --> 02:09:35,520
thanks thomas i saw i saw you pop in and

3662
02:09:38,069 --> 02:09:36,719
it just kept saying you weren't

3663
02:09:39,750 --> 02:09:38,079
connected

3664
02:09:42,149 --> 02:09:39,760
you're um give me one second i want to

3665
02:10:00,950 --> 02:09:42,159
grab something

3666
02:10:05,189 --> 02:10:03,669
it said your phone your camera and your

3667
02:10:07,830 --> 02:10:05,199
audio were not connected so i couldn't

3668
02:10:11,189 --> 02:10:10,470
yeah gregory i read it took me like four

3669
02:10:13,910 --> 02:10:11,199
days

3670
02:10:15,189 --> 02:10:13,920
i was cramming it it's really good

3671
02:10:17,750 --> 02:10:15,199
there's a lot of details in there

3672
02:10:18,470 --> 02:10:17,760
for people who are familiar with the

3673
02:10:21,510 --> 02:10:18,480
subject that

3674
02:10:22,870 --> 02:10:21,520
it's new information and i'm i'm glad i

3675
02:10:24,790 --> 02:10:22,880
got the interview ross

3676
02:10:25,910 --> 02:10:24,800
a little stressed going in but it was

3677
02:10:27,589 --> 02:10:25,920
okay

3678
02:10:28,950 --> 02:10:27,599
i'm glad we got the slide nine too

3679
02:10:30,550 --> 02:10:28,960
because if slide nine is real and they

3680
02:10:31,669 --> 02:10:30,560
can manipulate us i really don't know

3681
02:10:33,109 --> 02:10:31,679
how you can believe

3682
02:10:36,149 --> 02:10:33,119
any type of experience if they're

3683
02:10:38,870 --> 02:10:36,159
manipulating your perceptions but

3684
02:10:39,910 --> 02:10:38,880
you know and ross sees that and he's

3685
02:10:41,510 --> 02:10:39,920
open to it

3686
02:10:43,109 --> 02:10:41,520
and i wanted to get a little more into

3687
02:10:48,950 --> 02:10:43,119
my labs but i know we had another

3688
02:10:52,470 --> 02:10:50,870
i'm going to eat dinner unless do you

3689
02:10:53,109 --> 02:10:52,480
think ross will inspire more journalists

3690
02:10:56,229 --> 02:10:53,119
to look

3691
02:10:57,990 --> 02:10:56,239
at the

3692
02:10:59,350 --> 02:10:58,000
subject i hope so i mean from what he

3693
02:11:00,870 --> 02:10:59,360
talks about there are already people

3694
02:11:02,149 --> 02:11:00,880
reaching out and he has not

3695
02:11:03,750 --> 02:11:02,159
from what i heard him talk about the

3696
02:11:04,310 --> 02:11:03,760
other night or yesterday he has not

3697
02:11:07,669 --> 02:11:04,320
received

3698
02:11:08,950 --> 02:11:07,679
any feedback negative feedback from any

3699
02:11:11,350 --> 02:11:08,960
of his colleagues

3700
02:11:13,109 --> 02:11:11,360
there are people who have been surprised

3701
02:11:14,310 --> 02:11:13,119
and said what are you doing but nobody's

3702
02:11:17,990 --> 02:11:14,320
like made fun of him or

3703
02:11:19,510 --> 02:11:18,000
you know tin foil hat stuff louise

3704
02:11:21,589 --> 02:11:19,520
have you heard that catamullations are a

3705
02:11:22,830 --> 02:11:21,599
food source for the others i have not

3706
02:11:26,310 --> 02:11:22,840
heard that

3707
02:11:28,950 --> 02:11:26,320
um you know i think most of the cattle

3708
02:11:31,990 --> 02:11:28,960
mutilations are carried out by

3709
02:11:34,709 --> 02:11:32,000
humans um but there are some cases that

3710
02:11:35,669 --> 02:11:34,719
do not fit that i mean christopher

3711
02:11:37,990 --> 02:11:35,679
o'brien's book

3712
02:11:39,109 --> 02:11:38,000
the stalking the herd is such it's a

3713
02:11:40,709 --> 02:11:39,119
massive book

3714
02:11:42,149 --> 02:11:40,719
um he's like yeah he thinks it's humans

3715
02:11:44,790 --> 02:11:42,159
testing the food chain

3716
02:11:46,069 --> 02:11:44,800
and the food source uh a great book on

3717
02:11:49,270 --> 02:11:46,079
that is

3718
02:11:50,629 --> 02:11:49,280
it's not it's not mutilation material

3719
02:11:52,790 --> 02:11:50,639
like like you would think but

3720
02:11:54,229 --> 02:11:52,800
colin kelleher who worked for nids and i

3721
02:11:55,669 --> 02:11:54,239
have his book i have not read at all i

3722
02:11:58,149 --> 02:11:55,679
forget what it's called

3723
02:12:00,149 --> 02:11:58,159
brain it's something called brain but

3724
02:12:02,950 --> 02:12:00,159
tom kelleher and um he thinks it's them

3725
02:12:03,830 --> 02:12:02,960
testing checking the food chain and the

3726
02:12:09,350 --> 02:12:03,840
meat supply

3727
02:12:12,950 --> 02:12:09,360
and related um mad cow disease

3728
02:12:15,750 --> 02:12:12,960
but there are some cases that you know

3729
02:12:17,270 --> 02:12:15,760
defy explanation suck you know using

3730
02:12:19,990 --> 02:12:17,280
their blood i don't know i mean

3731
02:12:20,709 --> 02:12:20,000
i've spoken about theories from the 90s

3732
02:12:22,229 --> 02:12:20,719
i heard that

3733
02:12:23,830 --> 02:12:22,239
there are certain interdimensionals or

3734
02:12:25,510 --> 02:12:23,840
whatever who here who feed off of our

3735
02:12:26,470 --> 02:12:25,520
negative energy and i got slammed for

3736
02:12:28,470 --> 02:12:26,480
even bringing that up

3737
02:12:29,910 --> 02:12:28,480
i know the long is brought up too but a

3738
02:12:31,189 --> 02:12:29,920
lot of people have spoken about that

3739
02:12:33,270 --> 02:12:31,199
over the years

3740
02:12:34,470 --> 02:12:33,280
back a long time ago that subject came

3741
02:12:35,910 --> 02:12:34,480
up um

3742
02:12:41,830 --> 02:12:35,920
i don't know i know it's controversial

3743
02:12:47,830 --> 02:12:45,830
and i do think you know it's either

3744
02:12:50,229 --> 02:12:47,840
i've i've spoken to people who have

3745
02:12:53,109 --> 02:12:50,239
different theories you know

3746
02:12:55,109 --> 02:12:53,119
sources you know multiple groups here

3747
02:12:57,830 --> 02:12:55,119
interdimensional extraterrestrial

3748
02:13:00,229 --> 02:12:57,840
ultra-terrestrial it's like

3749
02:13:01,430 --> 02:13:00,239
and then you talk to somebody who is

3750
02:13:01,990 --> 02:13:01,440
right in the middle of things and he's

3751
02:13:05,589 --> 02:13:02,000
like the

3752
02:13:07,430 --> 02:13:05,599
the evidence is contradictory um

3753
02:13:09,510 --> 02:13:07,440
and i i've tweeted this before the last

3754
02:13:10,790 --> 02:13:09,520
thing they said after looking at all the

3755
02:13:13,270 --> 02:13:10,800
evidence

3756
02:13:14,950 --> 02:13:13,280
it's a show meaning it's just so

3757
02:13:16,550 --> 02:13:14,960
it's it's just no way to figure it out

3758
02:13:18,069 --> 02:13:16,560
you think you have it figured out

3759
02:13:19,589 --> 02:13:18,079
and then another piece of evidence comes

3760
02:13:22,629 --> 02:13:19,599
in it's like oh that doesn't make sense

3761
02:13:22,639 --> 02:13:25,669
so yeah

3762
02:13:31,189 --> 02:13:29,430
and dr eric davis

3763
02:13:33,430 --> 02:13:31,199
i wish he could speak because he he

3764
02:13:34,870 --> 02:13:33,440
would be on so many shows

3765
02:13:36,229 --> 02:13:34,880
it's just his job you know they don't

3766
02:13:38,950 --> 02:13:36,239
want him to talk about it ever since the

3767
02:13:41,270 --> 02:13:38,960
new york times article came out which

3768
02:13:42,149 --> 02:13:41,280
brian bender has spoken about i'm not a

3769
02:13:45,189 --> 02:13:42,159
big c i

3770
02:13:46,229 --> 02:13:45,199
i'm not a big ce five fan louise um i

3771
02:13:48,790 --> 02:13:46,239
don't think anybody's haven't

3772
02:13:49,510 --> 02:13:48,800
had anything negative but i just i i

3773
02:13:54,069 --> 02:13:49,520
mean

3774
02:13:55,510 --> 02:13:54,079
some ce5 experiences that have been

3775
02:13:56,310 --> 02:13:55,520
negative i have not heard them so i

3776
02:13:59,750 --> 02:13:56,320
don't think it's

3777
02:14:00,950 --> 02:13:59,760
bad thing it's just not my thing

3778
02:14:02,870 --> 02:14:00,960
especially if they can yeah like you

3779
02:14:04,950 --> 02:14:02,880
said if they can manipulate perception

3780
02:14:06,709 --> 02:14:04,960
how can you trust anything and when i

3781
02:14:07,750 --> 02:14:06,719
was on the richard dolan young guns

3782
02:14:09,430 --> 02:14:07,760
panel with

3783
02:14:10,950 --> 02:14:09,440
jay from project unity he's like yeah

3784
02:14:11,990 --> 02:14:10,960
how do you how can you trust any of your

3785
02:14:15,910 --> 02:14:12,000
experience and

3786
02:14:17,990 --> 02:14:15,920
carla turner said there was one uh

3787
02:14:19,510 --> 02:14:18,000
one experiencer abductee who said she

3788
02:14:20,950 --> 02:14:19,520
had this amazing experience they brought

3789
02:14:23,189 --> 02:14:20,960
her and she was in front of

3790
02:14:24,870 --> 02:14:23,199
what's up sean they they brought her in

3791
02:14:26,310 --> 02:14:24,880
front of this crowd and she was speaking

3792
02:14:27,990 --> 02:14:26,320
she had such a great feeling and then

3793
02:14:30,229 --> 02:14:28,000
when she when she

3794
02:14:31,990 --> 02:14:30,239
remembered being back in her car it was

3795
02:14:33,189 --> 02:14:32,000
she did not feel well and she went under

3796
02:14:34,950 --> 02:14:33,199
hypnosis and

3797
02:14:37,589 --> 02:14:34,960
the hypnosis was something really

3798
02:14:39,430 --> 02:14:37,599
negative so if you believe the hypnosis

3799
02:14:41,030 --> 02:14:39,440
the original great memory was just a

3800
02:14:42,709 --> 02:14:41,040
screen memory so it's like

3801
02:14:43,990 --> 02:14:42,719
and carla turner was like we can't trust

3802
02:14:45,270 --> 02:14:44,000
anything she goes i don't know what

3803
02:14:47,430 --> 02:14:45,280
we're dealing with e.t

3804
02:14:48,390 --> 02:14:47,440
interdimensional but sometimes whoever

3805
02:14:50,629 --> 02:14:48,400
they are they lie

3806
02:14:52,069 --> 02:14:50,639
some of them lie and i love carla turner

3807
02:14:54,229 --> 02:14:52,079
and i don't know why i

3808
02:14:55,189 --> 02:14:54,239
rejected her work earlier um there are

3809
02:14:56,709 --> 02:14:55,199
other people i'm going to go back and

3810
02:14:58,390 --> 02:14:56,719
look at some of linda molten howe's work

3811
02:15:00,069 --> 02:14:58,400
because i've looked at that and said

3812
02:15:01,990 --> 02:15:00,079
you know when i read it at the time her

3813
02:15:03,750 --> 02:15:02,000
glimpses of other realities part two

3814
02:15:05,750 --> 02:15:03,760
i was like i liked it but then over the

3815
02:15:07,510 --> 02:15:05,760
years i became more skeptical and

3816
02:15:12,069 --> 02:15:07,520
more conservative but i need to i need

3817
02:15:16,790 --> 02:15:15,030
now jay has said jay may may have had an

3818
02:15:18,470 --> 02:15:16,800
experience but he talked about how you

3819
02:15:20,149 --> 02:15:18,480
cannot trust your experience as far as

3820
02:15:21,109 --> 02:15:20,159
it being a literal representation of

3821
02:15:22,790 --> 02:15:21,119
what you're seeing

3822
02:15:24,790 --> 02:15:22,800
if they because he knows about jane

3823
02:15:26,470 --> 02:15:24,800
knows about slide nine he's asked

3824
02:15:28,069 --> 02:15:26,480
lou about slide nine he's asked ross

3825
02:15:29,510 --> 02:15:28,079
about slide nine so

3826
02:15:31,350 --> 02:15:29,520
it doesn't mean he's not i mean i think

3827
02:15:33,750 --> 02:15:31,360
he's having an experience and i think

3828
02:15:34,709 --> 02:15:33,760
i mean obviously if i think telepathy is

3829
02:15:36,229 --> 02:15:34,719
real which i do

3830
02:15:37,510 --> 02:15:36,239
then if there are other beings here we

3831
02:15:39,270 --> 02:15:37,520
can communicate with them so it's not

3832
02:15:41,030 --> 02:15:39,280
like a big stretch for me to think

3833
02:15:42,629 --> 02:15:41,040
you could try to bring in craft and you

3834
02:15:42,950 --> 02:15:42,639
know people should watch the george

3835
02:15:45,270 --> 02:15:42,960
knapp

3836
02:15:46,790 --> 02:15:45,280
recent interview where he um he

3837
02:15:51,109 --> 02:15:46,800
interviewed three people

3838
02:15:51,350 --> 02:15:51,119
who um can summon ufos one of the videos

3839
02:15:52,870 --> 02:15:51,360
is

3840
02:15:55,350 --> 02:15:52,880
really good i mean it's probably one of

3841
02:15:56,870 --> 02:15:55,360
the better home videos i've ever seen

3842
02:15:58,950 --> 02:15:56,880
um you should take a look on mystery

3843
02:16:00,629 --> 02:15:58,960
wire it's not that long ago

3844
02:16:01,589 --> 02:16:00,639
um just fast forward to that video if

3845
02:16:03,669 --> 02:16:01,599
you don't want to listen to them but

3846
02:16:05,030 --> 02:16:03,679
these regular guys doing ce5 type of

3847
02:16:06,390 --> 02:16:05,040
stuff

3848
02:16:08,069 --> 02:16:06,400
do you think more sources will come out

3849
02:16:09,350 --> 02:16:08,079
and talk with investigators and

3850
02:16:10,709 --> 02:16:09,360
journalists

3851
02:16:12,390 --> 02:16:10,719
yeah i mean that's what's encouraging

3852
02:16:30,830 --> 02:16:12,400
about ross and give me one second i

3853
02:16:34,870 --> 02:16:32,389
so

3854
02:16:36,549 --> 02:16:34,880
that is what is encouraging about ross

3855
02:16:38,389 --> 02:16:36,559
you know he wrote letters and he got

3856
02:16:40,309 --> 02:16:38,399
responses if you believe the people

3857
02:16:43,509 --> 02:16:40,319
you know nat if you believe those folks

3858
02:16:45,669 --> 02:16:43,519
were involved in the program then yeah

3859
02:16:47,190 --> 02:16:45,679
so more people are speaking up i can see

3860
02:16:48,309 --> 02:16:47,200
it i can only see it getting better

3861
02:16:49,910 --> 02:16:48,319
unless

3862
02:16:51,270 --> 02:16:49,920
i don't know how they can put a kibosh

3863
02:16:58,950 --> 02:16:51,280
on that if these guys are coming out

3864
02:17:05,589 --> 02:17:02,230
i have never asked hal kit or i don't

3865
02:17:08,230 --> 02:17:05,599
think i've asked eric about slide nine

3866
02:17:10,150 --> 02:17:08,240
maybe i may have i mean i have messages

3867
02:17:11,669 --> 02:17:10,160
from him that are

3868
02:17:14,629 --> 02:17:11,679
i have to i have to put him in a

3869
02:17:17,910 --> 02:17:14,639
document one day because there's so much

3870
02:17:20,629 --> 02:17:17,920
um but i have not

3871
02:17:22,070 --> 02:17:20,639
uh kit doesn't do interviews anymore i

3872
02:17:23,509 --> 02:17:22,080
really need to publish my kick green

3873
02:17:26,549 --> 02:17:23,519
view interview it's a lot of good stuff

3874
02:17:28,389 --> 02:17:26,559
in there i'll add audio to it

3875
02:17:30,629 --> 02:17:28,399
which i'm kind of glad i waited because

3876
02:17:31,429 --> 02:17:30,639
i can i can really add some context to

3877
02:17:37,110 --> 02:17:31,439
that

3878
02:17:39,349 --> 02:17:37,120
december of 2019

3879
02:17:40,950 --> 02:17:39,359
and his opinions have changed since then

3880
02:17:43,030 --> 02:17:40,960
so just keep that in mind

3881
02:17:44,629 --> 02:17:43,040
but he also i also said can you tell me

3882
02:17:45,589 --> 02:17:44,639
what opinions have changed he's like i

3883
02:17:47,429 --> 02:17:45,599
don't have time to go through the

3884
02:17:48,790 --> 02:17:47,439
interview and tell you so

3885
02:17:49,990 --> 02:17:48,800
but i am going to publish that i mean

3886
02:17:51,030 --> 02:17:50,000
there's no reason why i won't i just

3887
02:17:54,309 --> 02:17:51,040
have to do it

3888
02:17:55,910 --> 02:17:54,319
and um the other thing you know

3889
02:17:57,990 --> 02:17:55,920
and i and i've shared it with somebody

3890
02:18:00,709 --> 02:17:58,000
it's the one remote viewer

3891
02:18:02,629 --> 02:18:00,719
is lin buchanan who said he saw military

3892
02:18:04,549 --> 02:18:02,639
guys working with et's

3893
02:18:05,750 --> 02:18:04,559
and he's like just matter of fact he

3894
02:18:07,110 --> 02:18:05,760
goes it could have been a doll it could

3895
02:18:08,629 --> 02:18:07,120
have been a dummy because i don't think

3896
02:18:09,910 --> 02:18:08,639
so but he goes i was in a place

3897
02:18:11,910 --> 02:18:09,920
i can't tell you what the work was

3898
02:18:13,589 --> 02:18:11,920
because it was classified but it was

3899
02:18:15,509 --> 02:18:13,599
humans and next to them look like

3900
02:18:17,429 --> 02:18:15,519
little grays you know working with them

3901
02:18:18,870 --> 02:18:17,439
totally crazy for a lot of people

3902
02:18:21,110 --> 02:18:18,880
you know it's even crazy for people to

3903
02:18:22,629 --> 02:18:21,120
talk about crash retrievals but

3904
02:18:24,309 --> 02:18:22,639
that's what he said and he said he knew

3905
02:18:26,070 --> 02:18:24,319
other people who other people in the

3906
02:18:27,830 --> 02:18:26,080
military who had experienced it

3907
02:18:34,469 --> 02:18:27,840
and not during remote viewing it was

3908
02:18:39,509 --> 02:18:36,150
how great would it be if neil mccaslin

3909
02:18:42,230 --> 02:18:39,519
came out i mean or james lutkowski who

3910
02:18:43,429 --> 02:18:42,240
ran awsapp i mean those people lou keeps

3911
02:18:44,790 --> 02:18:43,439
wanting these folks

3912
02:18:46,629 --> 02:18:44,800
i'm not sure lou's talking about

3913
02:18:50,309 --> 02:18:46,639
mccaslin but i'm sure lou would be so

3914
02:18:57,830 --> 02:18:54,790
oak shannon um a scientist

3915
02:19:00,790 --> 02:18:57,840
who was friends with dr eric davis

3916
02:19:04,230 --> 02:19:00,800
um he was part of the john alexander

3917
02:19:06,150 --> 02:19:04,240
advanced theoretical physics group

3918
02:19:07,509 --> 02:19:06,160
grant cameron past pasted some of his

3919
02:19:08,790 --> 02:19:07,519
notes recently

3920
02:19:11,830 --> 02:19:08,800
on facebook it may not have been

3921
02:19:15,349 --> 02:19:11,840
recently i saw it recently um

3922
02:19:17,669 --> 02:19:15,359
and he is the one that convinced tom

3923
02:19:19,030 --> 02:19:17,679
wilson to meet with eric davis in 2002

3924
02:19:20,549 --> 02:19:19,040
and like i said to ross the meeting

3925
02:19:21,910 --> 02:19:20,559
happened the notes are real i have zero

3926
02:19:23,830 --> 02:19:21,920
doubt i've seen things which i can't

3927
02:19:25,830 --> 02:19:23,840
talk about but even the stuff publicly

3928
02:19:27,190 --> 02:19:25,840
i mean for me if you look at it it's no

3929
02:19:30,389 --> 02:19:27,200
doubt that they met

3930
02:19:31,589 --> 02:19:30,399
um and oak shannon helped set that

3931
02:19:34,870 --> 02:19:31,599
meeting up

3932
02:19:36,150 --> 02:19:34,880
and oak shannon said

3933
02:19:37,990 --> 02:19:36,160
if he caught you know he introduced

3934
02:19:39,349 --> 02:19:38,000
those two and if he caused any

3935
02:19:41,910 --> 02:19:39,359
embarrassment that he apologized

3936
02:19:43,349 --> 02:19:41,920
you know tom tom wilson is a good man

3937
02:19:43,910 --> 02:19:43,359
and meanwhile and then he tells ross i

3938
02:19:47,429 --> 02:19:43,920
don't know

3939
02:19:49,190 --> 02:19:47,439
shannon is so it's like is tom

3940
02:19:50,870 --> 02:19:49,200
wilson throwing us a bone by saying that

3941
02:19:52,389 --> 02:19:50,880
because it's obvious you know oak

3942
02:19:53,910 --> 02:19:52,399
shannon

3943
02:19:55,910 --> 02:19:53,920
very religious person he's not just

3944
02:19:57,830 --> 02:19:55,920
gonna lie about knowing tom wilson it

3945
02:19:58,469 --> 02:19:57,840
makes zero sense to anybody who looks at

3946
02:20:01,190 --> 02:19:58,479
that

3947
02:20:02,870 --> 02:20:01,200
so um hey joe if the president can't

3948
02:20:04,469 --> 02:20:02,880
discuss ufos what do you think has more

3949
02:20:07,110 --> 02:20:04,479
authority than him

3950
02:20:08,389 --> 02:20:07,120
um i don't know if it's about authority

3951
02:20:10,790 --> 02:20:08,399
i just think he doesn't have

3952
02:20:13,030 --> 02:20:10,800
access and that's that's one thing i

3953
02:20:14,550 --> 02:20:13,040
wasn't obviously i'm very liberal i

3954
02:20:16,150 --> 02:20:14,560
wasn't a trump fan but

3955
02:20:17,910 --> 02:20:16,160
the one thing i wanted trump to do to

3956
02:20:19,190 --> 02:20:17,920
say what do you mean i don't have access

3957
02:20:20,550 --> 02:20:19,200
i'm the president

3958
02:20:22,309 --> 02:20:20,560
get me into that building let me know

3959
02:20:24,309 --> 02:20:22,319
where it is and just bulldoze the door

3960
02:20:29,030 --> 02:20:24,319
down go in and take the craft

3961
02:20:32,070 --> 02:20:30,710
the coincidence between george knapp and

3962
02:20:33,990 --> 02:20:32,080
the triangles

3963
02:20:35,270 --> 02:20:34,000
showing up i'm not really sure you know

3964
02:20:39,190 --> 02:20:35,280
what i mean you mean

3965
02:20:42,230 --> 02:20:39,200
uh i think he meant uh

3966
02:20:43,670 --> 02:20:42,240
89 was when the program supposedly went

3967
02:20:45,030 --> 02:20:43,680
into hibernation and then that's when

3968
02:20:46,630 --> 02:20:45,040
some triangles started showing up in

3969
02:20:48,950 --> 02:20:46,640
australia where ross suspects

3970
02:20:49,910 --> 02:20:48,960
maybe they started testing their advance

3971
02:20:50,870 --> 02:20:49,920
craft out there

3972
02:20:53,910 --> 02:20:50,880
i think that's what he was just

3973
02:20:56,630 --> 02:20:55,510
what's the most important questions for

3974
02:20:58,550 --> 02:20:56,640
you personally would like to have

3975
02:21:01,750 --> 02:20:58,560
answered by folks like lou

3976
02:21:05,270 --> 02:21:01,760
um the one thing

3977
02:21:08,070 --> 02:21:05,280
jeff is do you know do you have

3978
02:21:08,630 --> 02:21:08,080
any hard evidence proof that any of

3979
02:21:11,510 --> 02:21:08,640
these

3980
02:21:12,230 --> 02:21:11,520
groups or intelligences are using us you

3981
02:21:15,429 --> 02:21:12,240
know and

3982
02:21:16,950 --> 02:21:15,439
you know is there any way to stop it and

3983
02:21:17,750 --> 02:21:16,960
are there groups out there that are

3984
02:21:19,990 --> 02:21:17,760
willing to help

3985
02:21:21,510 --> 02:21:20,000
if we reach a critical mass and we reach

3986
02:21:23,110 --> 02:21:21,520
out i think you know the whole prime

3987
02:21:24,230 --> 02:21:23,120
directive i i do think that there's

3988
02:21:26,550 --> 02:21:24,240
something to that

3989
02:21:28,230 --> 02:21:26,560
and if we get to enough people on this

3990
02:21:29,910 --> 02:21:28,240
planet who ask for help i think they

3991
02:21:31,030 --> 02:21:29,920
would step in but without that they're

3992
02:21:32,710 --> 02:21:31,040
not going to step in

3993
02:21:34,710 --> 02:21:32,720
they may shut off nukes and turn on

3994
02:21:37,590 --> 02:21:34,720
nukes i think that's about

3995
02:21:38,790 --> 02:21:37,600
it i mean and then you have i don't but

3996
02:21:40,309 --> 02:21:38,800
i don't know if it's one group or

3997
02:21:41,590 --> 02:21:40,319
multiple groups so it's confusing that's

3998
02:21:42,150 --> 02:21:41,600
another thing you know if they have

3999
02:21:44,309 --> 02:21:42,160
evidence

4000
02:21:46,150 --> 02:21:44,319
100 that it's multiple groups i mean

4001
02:21:46,710 --> 02:21:46,160
james fox is working on a documentary

4002
02:21:49,990 --> 02:21:46,720
about

4003
02:21:53,670 --> 02:21:50,000
vargina so that's a case in the mid 90s

4004
02:21:54,630 --> 02:21:53,680
in i think it's brazil vargina and

4005
02:21:56,550 --> 02:21:54,640
certainly seems like they're

4006
02:21:58,070 --> 02:21:56,560
weird-looking ets you know if that's the

4007
02:21:59,590 --> 02:21:58,080
case then there's multiple groups here

4008
02:22:00,469 --> 02:21:59,600
right away right you know

4009
02:22:01,910 --> 02:22:00,479
and then you've got the

4010
02:22:02,790 --> 02:22:01,920
ultra-terrestrials but i would like to

4011
02:22:04,469 --> 02:22:02,800
know if they had

4012
02:22:06,710 --> 02:22:04,479
hard evidence that any of these groups

4013
02:22:08,469 --> 02:22:06,720
are causing us harm because if they not

4014
02:22:09,830 --> 02:22:08,479
we don't have to worry about it you know

4015
02:22:11,110 --> 02:22:09,840
get us the information out then it's

4016
02:22:16,870 --> 02:22:11,120
only technology they're worried about

4017
02:22:21,270 --> 02:22:19,670
hessdalen i went to norway hutch i

4018
02:22:22,870 --> 02:22:21,280
wanted to visit hesstal and i did not

4019
02:22:23,990 --> 02:22:22,880
get to see it it's really interesting i

4020
02:22:27,830 --> 02:22:24,000
don't know if it has anything

4021
02:22:29,830 --> 02:22:27,840
anything to do with um e.t or non-human

4022
02:22:30,550 --> 02:22:29,840
but it's consistent and it's repeatable

4023
02:22:32,630 --> 02:22:30,560
i mean

4024
02:22:34,870 --> 02:22:32,640
there's a video on youtube where jay

4025
02:22:36,790 --> 02:22:34,880
allen heineck went to hessdalen

4026
02:22:38,150 --> 02:22:36,800
you should check that out um so there's

4027
02:22:40,230 --> 02:22:38,160
definitely a phenomenon there i don't

4028
02:22:44,230 --> 02:22:40,240
know what it is

4029
02:22:48,950 --> 02:22:47,990
um christopher dunn vale's mana

4030
02:22:51,429 --> 02:22:48,960
materials are out

4031
02:22:52,070 --> 02:22:51,439
no but i don't know if you saw on

4032
02:22:53,910 --> 02:22:52,080
youtube

4033
02:22:55,110 --> 02:22:53,920
i mean on twitter the other day dr gary

4034
02:22:57,270 --> 02:22:55,120
nolan has

4035
02:22:58,389 --> 02:22:57,280
was speaking about how his colleagues

4036
02:23:01,830 --> 02:22:58,399
are really a lot

4037
02:23:02,150 --> 02:23:01,840
more open-minded on this subject and i i

4038
02:23:05,750 --> 02:23:02,160
mean

4039
02:23:09,349 --> 02:23:05,760
materials they're being tested

4040
02:23:09,750 --> 02:23:09,359
um but that paper is not that far away i

4041
02:23:12,469 --> 02:23:09,760
believe

4042
02:23:15,500 --> 02:23:12,479
um it'd be great if it was this year

4043
02:23:16,830 --> 02:23:15,510
sometime this year would be awesome

4044
02:23:18,389 --> 02:23:16,840
[Music]

4045
02:23:20,710 --> 02:23:18,399
um

4046
02:23:22,710 --> 02:23:20,720
19 west hall you know i have a westhall

4047
02:23:24,630 --> 02:23:22,720
picture

4048
02:23:26,550 --> 02:23:24,640
westall i know and of course i wanted to

4049
02:23:28,389 --> 02:23:26,560
get into more but here's a cool west all

4050
02:23:29,990 --> 02:23:28,399
picture which i did not get to

4051
02:23:31,429 --> 02:23:30,000
which i found today was a drawing from

4052
02:23:35,750 --> 02:23:31,439
one of the witnesses

4053
02:23:39,590 --> 02:23:38,309
it matches what john lennon saw in 74 in

4054
02:23:41,429 --> 02:23:39,600
new york

4055
02:23:42,790 --> 02:23:41,439
he wrote that song nobody told me that

4056
02:23:43,349 --> 02:23:42,800
days like these i don't know what to

4057
02:23:44,790 --> 02:23:43,359
name that song

4058
02:23:46,710 --> 02:23:44,800
but he said there's ufos over new york

4059
02:23:48,870 --> 02:23:46,720
and i ain't too surprised so that

4060
02:23:51,030 --> 02:23:48,880
craft seems like it matches what was

4061
02:23:54,469 --> 02:23:51,040
seen in west hall it's pretty

4062
02:23:57,910 --> 02:23:54,479
really close as far as the top but

4063
02:23:59,349 --> 02:23:57,920
um pretty neat west hall is amazing and

4064
02:24:01,910 --> 02:23:59,359
it's another thing i wanted to get into

4065
02:24:04,309 --> 02:24:01,920
we ran out of time

4066
02:24:05,990 --> 02:24:04,319
west hall there was the teacher who was

4067
02:24:06,710 --> 02:24:06,000
intimidated into shutting up and they

4068
02:24:08,950 --> 02:24:06,720
told him

4069
02:24:11,830 --> 02:24:08,960
if you talk about this anymore we could

4070
02:24:13,349 --> 02:24:11,840
tell people you were drunk that day

4071
02:24:14,950 --> 02:24:13,359
and you'll lose your job other people

4072
02:24:16,630 --> 02:24:14,960
have been intimidated and louis london

4073
02:24:18,070 --> 02:24:16,640
talked about a close colleague of his

4074
02:24:20,550 --> 02:24:18,080
saying that he ran into a group that

4075
02:24:21,590 --> 02:24:20,560
would grab ufo data before anybody else

4076
02:24:23,030 --> 02:24:21,600
could get to us and they would

4077
02:24:24,070 --> 02:24:23,040
intimidate people it's like who are

4078
02:24:26,790 --> 02:24:24,080
those people

4079
02:24:28,389 --> 02:24:26,800
and he's like i think lou said they were

4080
02:24:30,389 --> 02:24:28,399
like a men in black type

4081
02:24:32,070 --> 02:24:30,399
extra governmental group don't quote me

4082
02:24:34,469 --> 02:24:32,080
on that but he did mention a men in

4083
02:24:36,230 --> 02:24:34,479
black type of situation

4084
02:24:38,070 --> 02:24:36,240
lou had never encountered them but he

4085
02:24:41,270 --> 02:24:38,080
believed um

4086
02:24:45,670 --> 02:24:41,280
his colleague had i'm trying not to put

4087
02:24:45,680 --> 02:24:49,590
just seeing

4088
02:24:56,710 --> 02:24:52,070
this is very hard to scroll through uh

4089
02:24:58,550 --> 02:24:56,720
chats here we go i did speak with

4090
02:24:59,990 --> 02:24:58,560
somebody if you look at my mega blog i

4091
02:25:03,110 --> 02:25:00,000
spoke to somebody who's mentioned

4092
02:25:06,710 --> 02:25:04,630
in the wilson davis documents and the

4093
02:25:08,469 --> 02:25:06,720
person asked me not to use their name

4094
02:25:09,990 --> 02:25:08,479
person gave me way too many details if i

4095
02:25:11,030 --> 02:25:10,000
would have used every detail that person

4096
02:25:12,469 --> 02:25:11,040
gave me you would have been able to

4097
02:25:13,910 --> 02:25:12,479
figure it out right away so i took some

4098
02:25:15,429 --> 02:25:13,920
of those out but

4099
02:25:17,910 --> 02:25:15,439
guy didn't really want to talk to me at

4100
02:25:20,389 --> 02:25:17,920
first but he did he wound up talking

4101
02:25:21,190 --> 02:25:20,399
um he told me him and his wife loved the

4102
02:25:22,790 --> 02:25:21,200
movie paul

4103
02:25:24,550 --> 02:25:22,800
and my friends are like maybe that's

4104
02:25:26,630 --> 02:25:24,560
that's a covert way of telling you about

4105
02:25:28,710 --> 02:25:26,640
what the et's look like watch paul and i

4106
02:25:29,830 --> 02:25:28,720
did watch paul and it was good but

4107
02:25:31,990 --> 02:25:29,840
i don't know if he was really trying to

4108
02:25:33,349 --> 02:25:32,000
say anything with that when i first

4109
02:25:34,950 --> 02:25:33,359
called him i said

4110
02:25:36,469 --> 02:25:34,960
can i speak to so and so i almost said

4111
02:25:38,550 --> 02:25:36,479
his name just now and he said uh

4112
02:25:40,790 --> 02:25:38,560
his wife answered it's some guy from las

4113
02:25:41,349 --> 02:25:40,800
vegas a reporter who wants to talk to

4114
02:25:42,630 --> 02:25:41,359
you

4115
02:25:44,950 --> 02:25:42,640
i'm like there's no ways he getting on

4116
02:25:45,830 --> 02:25:44,960
the phone but he did i said can you tell

4117
02:25:49,110 --> 02:25:45,840
me about the admiral

4118
02:25:50,870 --> 02:25:49,120
wilson and davis documents no but then

4119
02:25:52,790 --> 02:25:50,880
we talked about ufos and it's in my mega

4120
02:25:54,550 --> 02:25:52,800
blog that's some interesting

4121
02:25:55,910 --> 02:25:54,560
thing to say he did not want this

4122
02:25:57,670 --> 02:25:55,920
information to be made public did not

4123
02:25:59,910 --> 02:25:57,680
want ufos to be confirmed

4124
02:26:00,710 --> 02:25:59,920
very conservative thought it would wreck

4125
02:26:06,389 --> 02:26:00,720
religions

4126
02:26:10,790 --> 02:26:06,399
ruin the planet that type of stuff

4127
02:26:14,230 --> 02:26:12,870
i don't think one of the things you know

4128
02:26:15,670 --> 02:26:14,240
i don't think these people i don't think

4129
02:26:19,190 --> 02:26:15,680
christopher mellon

4130
02:26:21,910 --> 02:26:19,200
crash retrieval program until he was

4131
02:26:22,870 --> 02:26:21,920
briefed or educated by some folks and

4132
02:26:24,389 --> 02:26:22,880
other people you know

4133
02:26:26,309 --> 02:26:24,399
harry reid i don't think he was briefed

4134
02:26:26,790 --> 02:26:26,319
into the program i think he was around

4135
02:26:29,670 --> 02:26:26,800
people

4136
02:26:30,309 --> 02:26:29,680
and bigelow and eric davis all those

4137
02:26:31,830 --> 02:26:30,319
people

4138
02:26:33,270 --> 02:26:31,840
they shared and i'm sure they have

4139
02:26:34,150 --> 02:26:33,280
information that they have not shared

4140
02:26:35,750 --> 02:26:34,160
with us

4141
02:26:37,830 --> 02:26:35,760
hope you know bigelow has alluded to

4142
02:26:39,429 --> 02:26:37,840
pictures maybe they have pictures i

4143
02:26:41,750 --> 02:26:39,439
don't know

4144
02:26:43,429 --> 02:26:41,760
um elizondo you know stephen greer and

4145
02:26:46,469 --> 02:26:43,439
people like

4146
02:26:47,830 --> 02:26:46,479
i know people sean greer and david coyle

4147
02:26:48,550 --> 02:26:47,840
when i mentioned his name but he said

4148
02:26:52,710 --> 02:26:48,560
that

4149
02:26:54,389 --> 02:26:52,720
alexander had been

4150
02:26:56,790 --> 02:26:54,399
in a government facility and he saw a

4151
02:26:59,830 --> 02:26:56,800
craft and louis denied that but

4152
02:27:01,030 --> 02:26:59,840
i've heard otherwise privately so that's

4153
02:27:04,150 --> 02:27:01,040
one thing i didn't get to ask

4154
02:27:05,990 --> 02:27:04,160
ross about lou's role you know is it as

4155
02:27:08,309 --> 02:27:06,000
much as people suspect he had oversight

4156
02:27:09,990 --> 02:27:08,319
on everything you know

4157
02:27:18,309 --> 02:27:10,000
i'll have to ask him that maybe some

4158
02:27:25,349 --> 02:27:21,429
yeah the whole area storm area 51 one

4159
02:27:25,359 --> 02:27:28,830
just trying to see if there's any more

4160
02:27:35,030 --> 02:27:31,190
questions

4161
02:27:36,710 --> 02:27:35,040
five more minutes do you know if greer

4162
02:27:39,030 --> 02:27:36,720
mitchell miller showed wilson the

4163
02:27:41,510 --> 02:27:39,040
alleged nro document with the code names

4164
02:27:43,590 --> 02:27:41,520
list and i think and wilson recognized

4165
02:27:45,349 --> 02:27:43,600
some of the code names

4166
02:27:47,110 --> 02:27:45,359
and given course of book made him take

4167
02:27:49,429 --> 02:27:47,120
greer i think

4168
02:27:50,550 --> 02:27:49,439
those code names were sent ahead of the

4169
02:27:53,910 --> 02:27:50,560
meeting

4170
02:27:55,590 --> 02:27:53,920
rgh and then wilson did i don't know if

4171
02:27:57,030 --> 02:27:55,600
wilson did his sleuthing before the

4172
02:28:00,389 --> 02:27:57,040
meeting or after and

4173
02:28:02,550 --> 02:28:00,399
there was also a letter in 295

4174
02:28:04,150 --> 02:28:02,560
from will miller to wilson trying to set

4175
02:28:07,110 --> 02:28:04,160
up the meeting speaking about greer and

4176
02:28:11,830 --> 02:28:09,830
and whatever was on that document helped

4177
02:28:12,630 --> 02:28:11,840
admiral wilson locate the program

4178
02:28:14,950 --> 02:28:12,640
there's no

4179
02:28:16,389 --> 02:28:14,960
i just i have no doubt that that

4180
02:28:18,630 --> 02:28:16,399
happened i just

4181
02:28:19,990 --> 02:28:18,640
and i do believe that we have a craft

4182
02:28:20,630 --> 02:28:20,000
but that's a you know i don't have as

4183
02:28:22,230 --> 02:28:20,640
much

4184
02:28:24,830 --> 02:28:22,240
conviction on that as i do that the

4185
02:28:27,990 --> 02:28:24,840
documents are real and davis met with

4186
02:28:34,389 --> 02:28:31,030
yeah lou said somber but if people knew

4187
02:28:36,630 --> 02:28:34,399
what lou nude people asked lou if people

4188
02:28:38,389 --> 02:28:36,640
knew what you knew

4189
02:28:40,230 --> 02:28:38,399
you know what would they think and lou

4190
02:28:40,630 --> 02:28:40,240
said somber but that you know that could

4191
02:28:42,230 --> 02:28:40,640
mean

4192
02:28:44,309 --> 02:28:42,240
you could take that so many different

4193
02:28:45,830 --> 02:28:44,319
ways i mean for some people the fact

4194
02:28:47,590 --> 02:28:45,840
that we're not alone and we're not

4195
02:28:49,670 --> 02:28:47,600
and there's an intelligence that's you

4196
02:28:51,510 --> 02:28:49,680
know highly advanced intelligence on

4197
02:28:52,870 --> 02:28:51,520
this planet that alone if we're not the

4198
02:28:56,150 --> 02:28:52,880
top of the food chain

4199
02:28:58,070 --> 02:28:56,160
that alone could make people somber so

4200
02:29:00,070 --> 02:28:58,080
you know and then people think uh oh

4201
02:29:02,550 --> 02:29:00,080
it's bad news

4202
02:29:04,309 --> 02:29:02,560
lou knows about the lou knows about the

4203
02:29:06,309 --> 02:29:04,319
ones who are eating us and making us

4204
02:29:08,950 --> 02:29:06,319
disappear like the

4205
02:29:10,309 --> 02:29:08,960
missing 9-1-1 stuff um david polite you

4206
02:29:11,910 --> 02:29:10,319
know he knows all that bad stuff and

4207
02:29:12,710 --> 02:29:11,920
people are going to be very somber so i

4208
02:29:14,230 --> 02:29:12,720
mean

4209
02:29:15,830 --> 02:29:14,240
i don't know i don't know any i don't

4210
02:29:16,469 --> 02:29:15,840
think he would go into detail anyway if

4211
02:29:18,070 --> 02:29:16,479
he could

4212
02:29:19,830 --> 02:29:18,080
i mean if he did know and i think lou

4213
02:29:21,590 --> 02:29:19,840
does know a lot

4214
02:29:23,030 --> 02:29:21,600
hopefully he just starts letting it out

4215
02:29:24,950 --> 02:29:23,040
if he gets some clarification from the

4216
02:29:25,590 --> 02:29:24,960
ig investigation of what he can't speak

4217
02:29:27,270 --> 02:29:25,600
about

4218
02:29:28,790 --> 02:29:27,280
and not have the folks in the pentagon

4219
02:29:33,429 --> 02:29:28,800
threaten his security clearance like

4220
02:29:38,389 --> 02:29:36,710
leak to greer yeah that's that's one

4221
02:29:38,950 --> 02:29:38,399
thing ross brings up in the book why did

4222
02:29:46,070 --> 02:29:38,960
gr

4223
02:29:48,230 --> 02:29:46,080
outed um patrick hughes

4224
02:29:50,389 --> 02:29:48,240
who greer and miller briefed a few

4225
02:29:52,710 --> 02:29:50,399
months later and

4226
02:29:53,750 --> 02:29:52,720
that's another thing if if greer you

4227
02:29:56,309 --> 02:29:53,760
know wilson

4228
02:29:58,070 --> 02:29:56,319
admits that greer and wilson greer and

4229
02:29:58,630 --> 02:29:58,080
miller and mitchell they had a meeting

4230
02:30:00,389 --> 02:29:58,640
but

4231
02:30:01,830 --> 02:30:00,399
wilson denies looking into the

4232
02:30:03,670 --> 02:30:01,840
information they provided him

4233
02:30:05,750 --> 02:30:03,680
so wilson admitted that the meeting took

4234
02:30:07,670 --> 02:30:05,760
place if that meeting was not great and

4235
02:30:09,590 --> 02:30:07,680
wasn't impressive to wilson

4236
02:30:11,190 --> 02:30:09,600
his boss wouldn't have had a meeting

4237
02:30:13,270 --> 02:30:11,200
with miller and wilson

4238
02:30:14,309 --> 02:30:13,280
a few months later in 98 you know it's

4239
02:30:17,270 --> 02:30:14,319
like

4240
02:30:18,870 --> 02:30:17,280
so obviously whatever miller and greer

4241
02:30:21,590 --> 02:30:18,880
and mitchell told

4242
02:30:22,950 --> 02:30:21,600
wilson it was enough for wilson to say

4243
02:30:24,630 --> 02:30:22,960
to his boss hey you should take this

4244
02:30:26,230 --> 02:30:24,640
briefing too and that happened last year

4245
02:30:28,389 --> 02:30:26,240
you would think if it was garbage

4246
02:30:30,630 --> 02:30:28,399
wilson would have said don't bother you

4247
02:30:32,710 --> 02:30:30,640
know

4248
02:30:34,950 --> 02:30:32,720
and as far as yeah who else did gruyere

4249
02:30:38,230 --> 02:30:34,960
out yeah he greer outed

4250
02:30:39,349 --> 02:30:38,240
he ran talks about lou after after she

4251
02:30:41,190 --> 02:30:39,359
and runs to him you know

4252
02:30:43,670 --> 02:30:41,200
she and said this is what lou said i

4253
02:30:45,349 --> 02:30:43,680
don't know why if if sheehan did that

4254
02:30:47,030 --> 02:30:45,359
not a great thing i don't know why you

4255
02:30:50,870 --> 02:30:47,040
would tell greer but

4256
02:30:52,710 --> 02:30:50,880
um why is there a

4257
02:30:54,389 --> 02:30:52,720
current lull when there's a lull that

4258
02:30:56,070 --> 02:30:54,399
usually means

4259
02:30:58,150 --> 02:30:56,080
lou and melon are doing stuff behind the

4260
02:31:01,270 --> 02:30:58,160
scenes so let's see what happens

4261
02:31:06,950 --> 02:31:01,280
uh i don't think i don't think wilson

4262
02:31:12,830 --> 02:31:10,150
yes to serve that's the twilight zone

4263
02:31:19,510 --> 02:31:12,840
movie to serve man

4264
02:31:23,510 --> 02:31:21,990
yeah lou has explained the somber stuff

4265
02:31:25,429 --> 02:31:23,520
it could be you can read so much into

4266
02:31:28,469 --> 02:31:25,439
that

4267
02:31:30,550 --> 02:31:28,479
the very top oversight

4268
02:31:32,630 --> 02:31:30,560
yes and yes i wanted to touch on that

4269
02:31:34,630 --> 02:31:32,640
again because i wasn't

4270
02:31:36,309 --> 02:31:34,640
because you know in ross's book he talks

4271
02:31:38,070 --> 02:31:36,319
about how mellon and

4272
02:31:39,270 --> 02:31:38,080
the gang of eight and harry reid was

4273
02:31:40,469 --> 02:31:39,280
part of the gang of eight and they would

4274
02:31:42,389 --> 02:31:40,479
have oversight on those

4275
02:31:43,910 --> 02:31:42,399
all those special access programs but i

4276
02:31:45,750 --> 02:31:43,920
don't think they had access they didn't

4277
02:31:50,630 --> 02:31:45,760
even know it existed

4278
02:31:50,640 --> 02:31:54,830
oversight if you don't know something

4279
02:31:57,990 --> 02:31:56,150
exists

4280
02:31:59,830 --> 02:31:58,000
everyone hates him but if the ufo thing

4281
02:32:01,270 --> 02:31:59,840
blows open greer

4282
02:32:03,349 --> 02:32:01,280
girl will get a lot of credit i give him

4283
02:32:05,750 --> 02:32:03,359
credit now i mean i'm not one to just

4284
02:32:07,429 --> 02:32:05,760
totally pile on and when i see that i'll

4285
02:32:09,030 --> 02:32:07,439
usually take the other side if if there

4286
02:32:10,790 --> 02:32:09,040
is another side i won't just say it for

4287
02:32:13,590 --> 02:32:10,800
the hell of it grier's done a lot of

4288
02:32:17,270 --> 02:32:13,600
good stuff i mean i do think he met with

4289
02:32:19,030 --> 02:32:17,280
um the cia director woolsey uh

4290
02:32:20,309 --> 02:32:19,040
and um whether or not it was a briefing

4291
02:32:21,110 --> 02:32:20,319
i know woolsey had a problem with that

4292
02:32:23,110 --> 02:32:21,120
but you do not

4293
02:32:24,550 --> 02:32:23,120
invite stephen greer to a dinner that

4294
02:32:25,670 --> 02:32:24,560
was set up by john peterson of the

4295
02:32:27,910 --> 02:32:25,680
arlington institute

4296
02:32:29,590 --> 02:32:27,920
and not expect to talk ufos why would

4297
02:32:29,990 --> 02:32:29,600
you invite him there why so he can talk

4298
02:32:33,110 --> 02:32:30,000
about

4299
02:32:35,349 --> 02:32:33,120
his emergency room procedures

4300
02:32:36,870 --> 02:32:35,359
yeah lou versus mccaslin i don't know i

4301
02:32:37,270 --> 02:32:36,880
know so little about mccaslin i would

4302
02:32:39,830 --> 02:32:37,280
think

4303
02:32:41,110 --> 02:32:39,840
that's a good question good question to

4304
02:32:42,790 --> 02:32:41,120
ask lou i think

4305
02:32:44,710 --> 02:32:42,800
castle is such a mystery i mean it would

4306
02:32:46,469 --> 02:32:44,720
be nice i think the only reason we know

4307
02:32:48,070 --> 02:32:46,479
he was involved is

4308
02:32:49,270 --> 02:32:48,080
the wikileaks stuff i need to go over

4309
02:32:50,710 --> 02:32:49,280
again there's really great stuff in

4310
02:32:52,150 --> 02:32:50,720
wikileaks that i did not even get to

4311
02:32:53,590 --> 02:32:52,160
talk about with ross but it's in the

4312
02:32:55,750 --> 02:32:53,600
book

4313
02:32:58,309 --> 02:32:55,760
it's great stuff i mean talking about

4314
02:32:59,590 --> 02:32:58,319
how the information is there we just

4315
02:33:01,270 --> 02:32:59,600
know you need to know where to look and

4316
02:33:03,510 --> 02:33:01,280
it gets really specific

4317
02:33:04,710 --> 02:33:03,520
i mean he talks about the one thing i

4318
02:33:07,030 --> 02:33:04,720
forget the guy's name

4319
02:33:08,710 --> 02:33:07,040
bob french and he talks about how

4320
02:33:11,030 --> 02:33:08,720
certain ufos coming out of the water

4321
02:33:13,429 --> 02:33:11,040
they put out a certain frequency

4322
02:33:14,630 --> 02:33:13,439
and so our government knows that and

4323
02:33:16,389 --> 02:33:14,640
when they hear that when they see that

4324
02:33:17,990 --> 02:33:16,399
frequency they just don't bother he goes

4325
02:33:19,590 --> 02:33:18,000
but if i were to give you that frequency

4326
02:33:20,230 --> 02:33:19,600
then our adversaries would create a

4327
02:33:22,070 --> 02:33:20,240
craft

4328
02:33:23,349 --> 02:33:22,080
with that frequency knowing that we're

4329
02:33:24,710 --> 02:33:23,359
not going to go after it

4330
02:33:25,750 --> 02:33:24,720
so he wouldn't give that information up

4331
02:33:27,110 --> 02:33:25,760
but it's really good stuff in the

4332
02:33:29,750 --> 02:33:27,120
wikileaks

4333
02:33:30,950 --> 02:33:29,760
um and yeah hillary clinton was the you

4334
02:33:31,910 --> 02:33:30,960
know they were planning on doing stuff

4335
02:33:33,030 --> 02:33:31,920
with hillary

4336
02:33:36,550 --> 02:33:33,040
would have been interesting to see if

4337
02:33:36,560 --> 02:33:40,389
let me see if i'm gonna

4338
02:33:40,399 --> 02:33:45,990
anything else how you doing new york tag

4339
02:33:49,190 --> 02:33:47,590
castle now a member of space force i

4340
02:33:49,750 --> 02:33:49,200
don't know bob fish that was it thank

4341
02:33:52,630 --> 02:33:49,760
you drew

4342
02:33:54,150 --> 02:33:52,640
bob fish that part of the book i didn't

4343
02:33:56,150 --> 02:33:54,160
know that i mean

4344
02:33:57,590 --> 02:33:56,160
i need to go over wikileaks again it's

4345
02:33:59,510 --> 02:33:57,600
another weak point of mine

4346
02:34:00,790 --> 02:33:59,520
besides history and ross's book touches

4347
02:34:03,270 --> 02:34:00,800
enough on history where

4348
02:34:04,389 --> 02:34:03,280
i took a lot of notes that i can refer

4349
02:34:06,630 --> 02:34:04,399
back to

4350
02:34:09,750 --> 02:34:06,640
as far as educating myself in some of

4351
02:34:13,830 --> 02:34:12,150
my question is who at these legacy corps

4352
02:34:15,349 --> 02:34:13,840
knows who at lockheed i don't know how

4353
02:34:16,950 --> 02:34:15,359
many people you would think majority of

4354
02:34:18,150 --> 02:34:16,960
lockheed if there's a craft at lockheed

4355
02:34:21,990 --> 02:34:18,160
or northrup

4356
02:34:24,230 --> 02:34:22,000
um you would think that majority do not

4357
02:34:25,910 --> 02:34:24,240
know you know i would think i don't know

4358
02:34:26,230 --> 02:34:25,920
if even steve justice would be into red

4359
02:34:32,790 --> 02:34:26,240
and

4360
02:34:37,030 --> 02:34:35,110
jeff luis was asked in an interview has

4361
02:34:38,070 --> 02:34:37,040
he ever met mccaslin but he gave a no

4362
02:34:41,349 --> 02:34:38,080
comment

4363
02:34:43,030 --> 02:34:41,359
there you go i would love to transcribe

4364
02:34:44,389 --> 02:34:43,040
all of those interviews there's just so

4365
02:34:46,550 --> 02:34:44,399
many i can do

4366
02:34:48,070 --> 02:34:46,560
all of our eric davis interviews but

4367
02:34:54,790 --> 02:34:48,080
little there's too many

4368
02:34:58,870 --> 02:34:57,190
i wonder why louise is able to talk

4369
02:35:00,469 --> 02:34:58,880
about the 23 minute video

4370
02:35:04,150 --> 02:35:00,479
but he's not allowed to describe the

4371
02:35:09,990 --> 02:35:07,750
yeah i i i agree

4372
02:35:11,349 --> 02:35:10,000
tell us what's in the video tell us what

4373
02:35:12,950 --> 02:35:11,359
i think he's just being careful i think

4374
02:35:16,550 --> 02:35:12,960
he wants some clarification

4375
02:35:19,830 --> 02:35:16,560
i think lou legally can

4376
02:35:20,630 --> 02:35:19,840
can discuss i haven't put any comments

4377
02:35:23,670 --> 02:35:20,640
up but

4378
02:35:25,349 --> 02:35:23,680
that one's going up that have just that

4379
02:35:29,270 --> 02:35:25,359
has ruined the stream

4380
02:35:32,309 --> 02:35:29,280
mr silva um

4381
02:35:33,750 --> 02:35:32,319
nicole did you get an ass

4382
02:35:36,309 --> 02:35:33,760
did he get a chance to ask eric davis if

4383
02:35:37,990 --> 02:35:36,319
he holds patents or has pending i have

4384
02:35:39,590 --> 02:35:38,000
not because he's on vacation right now

4385
02:35:42,070 --> 02:35:39,600
and he's not responding to my

4386
02:35:43,270 --> 02:35:42,080
messages but i will because he hasn't

4387
02:35:44,950 --> 02:35:43,280
looked at my last ones

4388
02:35:47,429 --> 02:35:44,960
when he's on vacation he does the smart

4389
02:35:49,190 --> 02:35:47,439
thing he avoids social media

4390
02:35:51,510 --> 02:35:49,200
which is a good thing to do which i have

4391
02:35:52,950 --> 02:35:51,520
to learn although i don't take vacations

4392
02:35:54,469 --> 02:35:52,960
right now so

4393
02:35:56,150 --> 02:35:54,479
it's tom leaking information in his

4394
02:35:57,670 --> 02:35:56,160
films yeah that's what he said he said

4395
02:35:59,429 --> 02:35:57,680
he's going to try to get information out

4396
02:36:01,030 --> 02:35:59,439
but the whole problem with delong is i

4397
02:36:01,349 --> 02:36:01,040
believe everything de long says as far

4398
02:36:02,950 --> 02:36:01,359
as

4399
02:36:04,710 --> 02:36:02,960
these people told him stuff but did they

4400
02:36:07,590 --> 02:36:04,720
lie to him is the question you know

4401
02:36:09,429 --> 02:36:07,600
kit green and mirageman says that they

4402
02:36:11,030 --> 02:36:09,439
put out this information

4403
02:36:12,550 --> 02:36:11,040
to make us think there's some scary

4404
02:36:14,550 --> 02:36:12,560
story but when the real story comes out

4405
02:36:15,670 --> 02:36:14,560
we'll say oh that's the real story oh i

4406
02:36:16,710 --> 02:36:15,680
thought it was something scary the real

4407
02:36:20,150 --> 02:36:16,720
story isn't that

4408
02:36:22,950 --> 02:36:20,160
that scary and they call it the um

4409
02:36:24,790 --> 02:36:22,960
i think kit called it the uh what the

4410
02:36:26,550 --> 02:36:24,800
heck is it called

4411
02:36:28,389 --> 02:36:26,560
i don't know but it's the base the core

4412
02:36:29,990 --> 02:36:28,399
story the core story

4413
02:36:31,510 --> 02:36:30,000
you know multiple extraterrestrial

4414
02:36:34,830 --> 02:36:31,520
groups we have some of their craft

4415
02:36:41,429 --> 02:36:34,840
they left that's it don't know if that's

4416
02:36:45,190 --> 02:36:43,110
can the stream be viewed later yeah i

4417
02:36:46,710 --> 02:36:45,200
think i think when i cut it off it just

4418
02:36:50,710 --> 02:36:46,720
goes to youtube

4419
02:36:54,309 --> 02:36:50,720
dutch blue eyes um so yeah go to sleep

4420
02:36:58,550 --> 02:36:57,030
i should have just got rid of all my

4421
02:36:59,990 --> 02:36:58,560
history questions and just stuck with

4422
02:37:01,830 --> 02:37:00,000
crash retrievals and i would have gotten

4423
02:37:06,230 --> 02:37:01,840
to more stuff

4424
02:37:15,349 --> 02:37:07,990
next year i mean i'm not going to bother

4425
02:37:18,469 --> 02:37:17,270
could lou be nitpicking with his answer

4426
02:37:20,950 --> 02:37:18,479
about not seeing a

4427
02:37:23,270 --> 02:37:20,960
craft he could be or he's just worried

4428
02:37:25,590 --> 02:37:23,280
about losing his

4429
02:37:27,510 --> 02:37:25,600
pension and his clearance and there's

4430
02:37:27,990 --> 02:37:27,520
absolutely no reason to risk that right

4431
02:37:29,990 --> 02:37:28,000
now

4432
02:37:32,230 --> 02:37:30,000
i think lou will share more and more as

4433
02:37:33,670 --> 02:37:32,240
he's done over the years i mean

4434
02:37:35,190 --> 02:37:33,680
the very beginning he wouldn't even talk

4435
02:37:37,830 --> 02:37:35,200
about the other videos now he's talking

4436
02:37:39,429 --> 02:37:37,840
about a 23-minute video so

4437
02:37:41,110 --> 02:37:39,439
hopefully danny sheen could get more

4438
02:37:43,349 --> 02:37:41,120
clarification on

4439
02:37:44,469 --> 02:37:43,359
the ig investigation and what he can and

4440
02:37:46,309 --> 02:37:44,479
cannot say

4441
02:37:48,309 --> 02:37:46,319
what's your opinion of la's latest book

4442
02:37:51,590 --> 02:37:48,319
i have it i haven't read it

4443
02:37:52,710 --> 02:37:51,600
um yeah and i also have the witnesses

4444
02:37:54,309 --> 02:37:52,720
book too

4445
02:37:56,309 --> 02:37:54,319
forget his name and it's overdue from

4446
02:37:58,230 --> 02:37:56,319
the library from new mexico

4447
02:37:59,830 --> 02:37:58,240
and i have to pay a big fine if i don't

4448
02:38:00,710 --> 02:37:59,840
return it i think it's like a hundred

4449
02:38:03,990 --> 02:38:00,720
bucks

4450
02:38:05,270 --> 02:38:04,000
um which i probably can read quicker

4451
02:38:07,110 --> 02:38:05,280
definitely quicker than ross's book

4452
02:38:10,630 --> 02:38:07,120
ross's book took me a while

4453
02:38:12,309 --> 02:38:10,640
because i'm a slow reader as i get older

4454
02:38:17,270 --> 02:38:12,319
i'm not trying to put up questions i'm

4455
02:38:20,630 --> 02:38:18,870
yeah i don't know what is the specific

4456
02:38:23,030 --> 02:38:20,640
nature of the security clearance in

4457
02:38:24,870 --> 02:38:23,040
terms of what he can and can't say

4458
02:38:26,790 --> 02:38:24,880
i don't know that's that's the question

4459
02:38:27,590 --> 02:38:26,800
you know it's like where does he draw

4460
02:38:29,590 --> 02:38:27,600
the line

4461
02:38:31,270 --> 02:38:29,600
lou elizonda what he can and can't say

4462
02:38:35,270 --> 02:38:31,280
um

4463
02:38:41,910 --> 02:38:38,710
yeah and chad he says luke says

4464
02:38:42,710 --> 02:38:41,920
i should put these things up says uh

4465
02:38:45,030 --> 02:38:42,720
what do i make

4466
02:38:46,630 --> 02:38:45,040
of lucine he believes it's important

4467
02:38:50,150 --> 02:38:46,640
that he says i believe

4468
02:38:51,510 --> 02:38:50,160
he didn't say no um

4469
02:38:53,510 --> 02:38:51,520
there's a difference like when dr eric

4470
02:38:54,870 --> 02:38:53,520
davis talks about meeting people in

4471
02:38:57,110 --> 02:38:54,880
these other programs and they share

4472
02:38:58,950 --> 02:38:57,120
information up to a point on what their

4473
02:39:00,070 --> 02:38:58,960
programs are doing i mean that's how we

4474
02:39:00,950 --> 02:39:00,080
learned about the crash retrieval

4475
02:39:02,389 --> 02:39:00,960
program if you listen

4476
02:39:04,550 --> 02:39:02,399
if you read the transcript and listen to

4477
02:39:06,230 --> 02:39:04,560
his interviews did lou

4478
02:39:07,990 --> 02:39:06,240
get the information the same way did lou

4479
02:39:09,750 --> 02:39:08,000
speak to other people on other programs

4480
02:39:11,190 --> 02:39:09,760
if that's the case it's hearsay of

4481
02:39:11,910 --> 02:39:11,200
course if those are people he knows and

4482
02:39:13,590 --> 02:39:11,920
trusts

4483
02:39:15,030 --> 02:39:13,600
then he can say yeah i believe them but

4484
02:39:17,190 --> 02:39:15,040
i don't know for sure

4485
02:39:30,150 --> 02:39:17,200
i don't know if he's seen a craft would

4486
02:39:35,510 --> 02:39:31,990
thanks louise i'm going to take off two

4487
02:39:39,030 --> 02:39:37,510
have i reached the delong ever no but i

4488
02:39:41,590 --> 02:39:39,040
thought about it especially now since

4489
02:39:43,190 --> 02:39:41,600
it's a really down time

4490
02:39:45,110 --> 02:39:43,200
reach out to ttsa it's a really good

4491
02:39:46,389 --> 02:39:45,120
idea so all right i'm gonna guys might

4492
02:39:48,950 --> 02:39:46,399
take off

4493
02:39:49,510 --> 02:39:48,960
thank you for being here um it was like

4494
02:39:51,990 --> 02:39:49,520
a hundred

4495
02:39:53,510 --> 02:39:52,000
throughout the night which is great

4496
02:39:54,550 --> 02:39:53,520
hopefully you heard something new from

4497
02:39:59,590 --> 02:39:54,560
ross if not

4498
02:40:03,190 --> 02:40:01,590
he's an important part of getting this

4499
02:40:05,750 --> 02:40:03,200
information out i'm glad

4500
02:40:06,870 --> 02:40:05,760
i'm lucky i met him through james rigney

4501
02:40:09,910 --> 02:40:06,880
the other thing is

4502
02:40:12,230 --> 02:40:09,920
if you read the book thanks jeff thanks

4503
02:40:14,070 --> 02:40:12,240
haida and if you read the book he talks

4504
02:40:17,349 --> 02:40:14,080
about things that

4505
02:40:19,429 --> 02:40:17,359
eric edgar mitchell dr edgar mitchell

4506
02:40:21,110 --> 02:40:19,439
said

4507
02:40:22,550 --> 02:40:21,120
specifically to one person called the

4508
02:40:24,469 --> 02:40:22,560
space man so

4509
02:40:25,830 --> 02:40:24,479
and he had never mitchell had never said

4510
02:40:27,030 --> 02:40:25,840
it publicly before and i don't want to

4511
02:40:29,830 --> 02:40:27,040
ruin it for you but

4512
02:40:30,710 --> 02:40:29,840
obviously related to ufos um and and the

4513
02:40:33,190 --> 02:40:30,720
moon

4514
02:40:34,150 --> 02:40:33,200
it's really cool um that's that's

4515
02:40:35,190 --> 02:40:34,160
another thing that should be a

4516
02:40:37,269 --> 02:40:35,200
blockbuster

4517
02:40:38,469 --> 02:40:37,279
when i heard about that between that and

4518
02:40:41,429 --> 02:40:38,479
oak shannon

4519
02:40:43,110 --> 02:40:41,439
the wilson which i think is another lie

4520
02:40:44,550 --> 02:40:43,120
saying he doesn't know oak shan and he

4521
02:40:45,830 --> 02:40:44,560
obviously knows oak shannon

4522
02:40:48,550 --> 02:40:45,840
and i don't know if it's just a way of

4523
02:40:50,870 --> 02:40:48,560
wilson throwing us a bone

4524
02:40:52,469 --> 02:40:50,880
but like i said i have no bad feelings

4525
02:40:57,510 --> 02:40:52,479
towards tom wilson

4526
02:41:04,469 --> 02:40:59,510
corso how does corso fit into the story

4527
02:41:08,389 --> 02:41:06,150
i'll get to that in a second of course

4528
02:41:09,590 --> 02:41:08,399
by the way i bought corso's book sign

4529
02:41:11,030 --> 02:41:09,600
last year because i thought the whole

4530
02:41:12,630 --> 02:41:11,040
thing was going to break open and my

4531
02:41:13,590 --> 02:41:12,640
book would be worth more money but it

4532
02:41:16,230 --> 02:41:13,600
didn't happen

4533
02:41:17,510 --> 02:41:16,240
um corso fits in um i'm drawing a blank

4534
02:41:22,469 --> 02:41:17,520
right now i'll just tell you that

4535
02:41:26,950 --> 02:41:24,070
corso was given the responsibility of

4536
02:41:28,550 --> 02:41:26,960
taking some material from roswell and

4537
02:41:30,230 --> 02:41:28,560
feeding it out to other corporations so

4538
02:41:32,070 --> 02:41:30,240
they could reverse tech you know

4539
02:41:33,750 --> 02:41:32,080
reverse engineer it and some of the

4540
02:41:34,469 --> 02:41:33,760
stuff in the book is not accurate as far

4541
02:41:38,309 --> 02:41:34,479
as

4542
02:41:39,830 --> 02:41:38,319
technology in reverse engineering but

4543
02:41:42,469 --> 02:41:39,840
they're his notes supposedly very

4544
02:41:45,510 --> 02:41:42,479
accurate uh his diary or his journal and

4545
02:41:47,510 --> 02:41:45,520
that's online the book is a lot of added

4546
02:41:47,990 --> 02:41:47,520
stuff bill burns gets a lot of the flack

4547
02:41:50,309 --> 02:41:48,000
for that

4548
02:41:51,830 --> 02:41:50,319
and um so if you could find his and i've

4549
02:41:54,230 --> 02:41:51,840
tweeted out before but it's

4550
02:41:56,230 --> 02:41:54,240
corso's journal which is more concise

4551
02:41:59,030 --> 02:41:56,240
and it has a short part on roswell

4552
02:42:00,790 --> 02:41:59,040
which a lot of people like eric davis

4553
02:42:01,830 --> 02:42:00,800
has spoken about corso and they believe

4554
02:42:04,150 --> 02:42:01,840
him there's some people that don't

4555
02:42:05,910 --> 02:42:04,160
believe him this like john alexander

4556
02:42:08,070 --> 02:42:05,920
doesn't believe that brazil was

4557
02:42:11,030 --> 02:42:08,080
he believes roswell was a mogul balloon

4558
02:42:12,630 --> 02:42:11,040
so eric davis does not

4559
02:42:15,670 --> 02:42:12,640
and the only thing i've heard about 60

4560
02:42:17,190 --> 02:42:15,680
minutes is is uh

4561
02:42:18,790 --> 02:42:17,200
danny sheehan said there are two more

4562
02:42:19,429 --> 02:42:18,800
scheduled interviews with lou if that

4563
02:42:21,269 --> 02:42:19,439
happens

4564
02:42:22,950 --> 02:42:21,279
let's see what they do 60 minutes had

4565
02:42:27,910 --> 02:42:22,960
such a great great

4566
02:42:31,830 --> 02:42:29,429
i think that's tim who i went to college

4567
02:42:37,830 --> 02:42:34,469
all right i'm gonna end it thanks

4568
02:42:44,710 --> 02:42:41,030
yeah we we lost momentum new york

4569
02:42:45,990 --> 02:42:44,720
nyt tag but just hang in there there's

4570
02:42:46,630 --> 02:42:46,000
going to be ups and down it's going to

4571
02:42:49,349 --> 02:42:46,640
be like that

4572
02:42:49,830 --> 02:42:49,359
people wanted people wanted disclosure

4573
02:42:51,349 --> 02:42:49,840
and they

4574
02:42:53,110 --> 02:42:51,359
and i get carried away sometimes too but

4575
02:42:55,429 --> 02:42:53,120
it's going to take a long time

4576
02:42:56,790 --> 02:42:55,439
hopefully i'll be alive i don't know if

4577
02:42:58,389 --> 02:42:56,800
nicole's still here but she's like we're

4578
02:43:00,389 --> 02:42:58,399
doing this for our

4579
02:43:02,150 --> 02:43:00,399
kids you know for the next generation i

4580
02:43:02,870 --> 02:43:02,160
hope that's not the case i hope i get to

4581
02:43:06,230 --> 02:43:02,880
see

4582
02:43:09,110 --> 02:43:06,240
now is something i've never

4583
02:43:10,550 --> 02:43:09,120
i've never seen before you know since

4584
02:43:12,790 --> 02:43:10,560
i've been in this in 96.

4585
02:43:14,469 --> 02:43:12,800
it's the crooked bengal yeah tim i went

4586
02:43:18,790 --> 02:43:14,479
to i went to school with this guy

4587
02:43:22,150 --> 02:43:18,800
he was the mascot oh wrong picture

4588
02:43:24,070 --> 02:43:22,160
but it's still there's nicole

4589
02:43:26,550 --> 02:43:24,080
um yeah i went to school with this guy i

4590
02:43:28,230 --> 02:43:26,560
graduated in 1987.

4591
02:43:30,790 --> 02:43:28,240
i don't think i talked about ufos with

4592
02:43:33,030 --> 02:43:30,800
tim he was the mascot the school mascot

4593
02:43:36,630 --> 02:43:33,040
the bengal

4594
02:43:38,389 --> 02:43:36,640
but yeah nicole are you crying or

4595
02:43:39,510 --> 02:43:38,399
laughing because if it's our if it's our

4596
02:43:40,550 --> 02:43:39,520
generation that's going to get the

4597
02:43:42,870 --> 02:43:40,560
breakthrough

4598
02:43:44,389 --> 02:43:42,880
i'm just going to give up now now i i

4599
02:43:46,630 --> 02:43:44,399
have fun so i'll keep doing this

4600
02:43:47,830 --> 02:43:46,640
um if i didn't have fun i wouldn't i

4601
02:43:49,190 --> 02:43:47,840
would not do this

4602
02:43:50,630 --> 02:43:49,200
i'm not ex you know i don't have

4603
02:43:53,190 --> 02:43:50,640
expectations that we're going to get the

4604
02:43:55,349 --> 02:43:53,200
truth whatever the truth is

4605
02:43:57,429 --> 02:43:55,359
in the next couple of years but as long

4606
02:43:59,429 --> 02:43:57,439
as we keep making progress and

4607
02:44:00,950 --> 02:43:59,439
you know lou and melon and the people

4608
02:44:02,790 --> 02:44:00,960
behind them keep you know making

4609
02:44:04,710 --> 02:44:02,800
progress with the members of congress

4610
02:44:06,870 --> 02:44:04,720
i don't think we're enough i do not

4611
02:44:09,190 --> 02:44:06,880
think there's enough of us

4612
02:44:11,030 --> 02:44:09,200
to make a difference and you know it's

4613
02:44:12,710 --> 02:44:11,040
funny

4614
02:44:14,790 --> 02:44:12,720
melon in one of his interviews i think

4615
02:44:18,389 --> 02:44:14,800
it was with martin

4616
02:44:20,469 --> 02:44:18,399
willis in 2016 he said i was in

4617
02:44:21,830 --> 02:44:20,479
you know congressional aides whatever he

4618
02:44:23,349 --> 02:44:21,840
was doing and he saw the letters that

4619
02:44:24,870 --> 02:44:23,359
came to congress

4620
02:44:26,070 --> 02:44:24,880
and the representative he was working

4621
02:44:26,950 --> 02:44:26,080
for and he said they went into the

4622
02:44:29,429 --> 02:44:26,960
garbage

4623
02:44:30,550 --> 02:44:29,439
um if there's enough of us though it

4624
02:44:31,990 --> 02:44:30,560
would make a difference i just don't

4625
02:44:35,030 --> 02:44:32,000
think we have enough people

4626
02:44:37,110 --> 02:44:35,040
yet i don't think

4627
02:44:38,950 --> 02:44:37,120
i think we need congress to give

4628
02:44:40,309 --> 02:44:38,960
congress time to digest the info

4629
02:44:41,990 --> 02:44:40,319
with regular people i just think they're

4630
02:44:43,349 --> 02:44:42,000
working their jobs and

4631
02:44:45,030 --> 02:44:43,359
they can't worry about this right now

4632
02:44:46,710 --> 02:44:45,040
they need something to blow them away

4633
02:44:48,790 --> 02:44:46,720
they need the 23-minute video

4634
02:44:50,230 --> 02:44:48,800
if that somehow gets out that really

4635
02:44:52,150 --> 02:44:50,240
could push us to the next level

4636
02:44:57,990 --> 02:44:52,160
what that next level is what third gear

4637
02:45:03,429 --> 02:45:00,389
see ny tag you said thanks i don't even

4638
02:45:06,710 --> 02:45:03,439
remember what i just answered from you

4639
02:45:09,750 --> 02:45:06,720
because my mind is a is a is

4640
02:45:10,870 --> 02:45:09,760
crumbling from the past two days of just

4641
02:45:13,510 --> 02:45:10,880
cramming

4642
02:45:15,910 --> 02:45:13,520
ross's book and taking notes yeah if lou

4643
02:45:17,190 --> 02:45:15,920
ever ran for congress he talks about

4644
02:45:18,790 --> 02:45:17,200
they don't want me in congress they

4645
02:45:20,150 --> 02:45:18,800
don't want a dude like me in congress

4646
02:45:21,429 --> 02:45:20,160
that would be great but i'd rather have

4647
02:45:25,349 --> 02:45:21,439
him doing what he's doing now

4648
02:45:26,870 --> 02:45:25,359
but if he ran for congress and won

4649
02:45:30,710 --> 02:45:26,880
that would be amazing imagine his

4650
02:45:33,910 --> 02:45:30,720
interviews he would get massive coverage

4651
02:45:35,190 --> 02:45:33,920
there's still stigma now but i am going

4652
02:45:37,429 --> 02:45:35,200
to go eat

4653
02:45:39,190 --> 02:45:37,439
thanks everybody for hanging in there

4654
02:45:42,150 --> 02:45:39,200
for questions i wish

4655
02:45:44,150 --> 02:45:42,160
i i know i guess i should have i should

4656
02:45:46,150 --> 02:45:44,160
have done

4657
02:45:47,830 --> 02:45:46,160
comment questions for ross i thought i

4658
02:45:49,510 --> 02:45:47,840
thought people would call in but

4659
02:45:50,710 --> 02:45:49,520
i guess people don't like that so i'll

4660
02:45:52,550 --> 02:45:50,720
remember that next time i was just

4661
02:45:54,230 --> 02:45:52,560
hoping

4662
02:45:57,269 --> 02:45:54,240
it would be easier just to go in order

4663
02:45:59,750 --> 02:45:57,279
of taking calls